HELP with making up flat-pack supers

[Suzi Q]

I bought two supers in Th's sale the other day, flat pack. I have made them up, and they are not too bad apart from some knots that needed to be glued in and some warping . Can anybody advise me in how to make them level? When I stack them there is a gap, not as big as a bee space, but big enough. I have no carpentry skills, but can give it a go! Is glueing a splice of wood on the bottom a good idea?

 

[Midland Beek]

If I understand correctly, when you put them on a level floor there are some gaps around the bottom edges and it does not sit perfectly flat. Assuming that you haven't glued the joints, it might be an idea to put a board on top and then stand on it. And assuming you are a young and attractive slip of a thing, you might want to invite someone over that isn't quite as light.

Rather than think in terms of putting a slip of wood in, if you know how to use a plane you could take a slip off wood off. I am pleased you understand the principle of the bee space - do not ruin your hive parts modifying bee space. But bee spaces of the incorrect depth are bad for beehives.

Dunna worry too much if you assemble a beehive and there all small gaps between hive parts. Once there is a weight of honey in there and once the weather has got into the wood hive parts often even themselves out. And bees will seal up any small gaps with propolis, so it is not as if the rain will pour in.

 

[oliver90owner]

Take it apart and re-assemble on a flat surface - the floor will usually suffice - also making sure the diagonals are the same length, too. I know - not an option now!!

The wood will be accurately machined so planing to get it level will almost certainly leave another gap somewhere else - especially for someone inexperienced.

Unfortunately, by now, you have driven in all the nails and they will be very difficult to remove - another lesson, if you have fallen into that trap. Probably glued as well?

As Midland Beek says, any extra or removal will alter your bee space. It is much easier to make them level and sqare in the first place than effect remedial work afterwards.

I always screw them, the first screws straight in, for location, and then others 'on the tosh'. I never use the nails supplied. Knots are usually selected such that water ingress is avoided (direction of knot) and to be coverered, wherever possible. Any warping is pulled together with G clamps, or similar, before being screwed, again 'on the tosh'.

Regards, RAB

 

[Mike a]

I had a similar problem with a ready made super I bought 2nd hand at an auction. I cured it by placing it on a flat board outside and then stacked some spare equipment on top of it last winter. By the time I needed to use it this year there was still a slight gap under one corner but once the hive roof went on top to weigh it down it was fine.

 

[Suzi Q]

Thanks guys, a lot to think about....what does 'on the tosh' mean? The supers are nailed but not glued. When I did my beekeeping course, a chap there said there's no point glueing, the bees will propolise the hive anyway, and that is just as strong as any glue. That was reason enough for me to be lazy!
I think I'll do the board thing, and weight it down with some bricks. I had thought any significant gaps between supers, or super and brood box may encourage robbing. At the end of the day a bit of gaffer tape would do?

The reason the supers did not assemble true, I think, was because of the knots pulling the wood slightly out of shape, and that's why they were called seconds and were in the sale! Well you live and learn!

 

[drstitson]

skew

 

[drex]

All my hives and boxes are these seconds. Have found the machining to be accurate always.

If only nailed, then you will have some give in the boxes. Yes you can do the weighting down on flat surface, or just apply some force to the high side.

I always glue, and if you have not put in all the nails T's recommend, I would suggest you knock them apart and start again, assembling on a flat bench. I use a crownboard to check they are square.

 

[Suzi Q]

Ok, got it, 'on the tosh', means not straight in, but skew-wiff, ie screwed in at an angle!
Drex, don't think I could face starting again, they'll have to do.
Thanks for all your advice.

 

[Bee-Key-Pur]

You can try and springing them back into a better shape.
Lay a batton of wood on the floor, something like a 1" x 1" by 3ft long. Place the super on the batton so it runs from corner to corner. Now what you are trying to do is push the high corner down, i'm talking about the corner that sits high when you have it flat on the floor, the bit you said has a gap.
With you hand on the high corner and the opposite corner of the super, put your full body weight down on to those corners springing up and down a bit and you should get a bit of movement. Try and check for gaps on a flat surface again, if it still has gaps, try it a gain.
While doing this make sure the diagonal measurements don't go out, by checking the opposite corner to opposite corner measurement are the same using a tape measure, that's to make sure the box is square. If they are out, squeeze the corners back into square again.
Keep trying this until you get them into a better shape. Once done, I would leave them on a nice flat floor with something heavy on the corners like piles of books or a concrete slab.
Good luck.

 

[oliver90owner]

Ok, got it, 'on the tosh', means not straight in

Yes, but specifically in pairs with each pair having a screw/nail into the item at opposing angles, so the parts cannot be pulled apart easily.

Not quite so important with effective screws, but even so, if screwing into end grain, it helps add strength to the clamping force. One reason why pilot holes are important with screws - unless the joint is already pulled together before screwing.

I use it to good effect for screwing together poly parts, as well as a standard method of fixing my timber hive boxes. With poly parts the longer the screw threaded into the medium, the better. This allows longer screws to be utilised.

By the same token a 'toshed' screw can be concealed in the wood when it may just penetrate the surface if put in perpendicular.

RAB

 

[Hivemaker.]

Google Tosh,or toshed,for more imformation about screwing

But don't google.... screwing on the tosh.

 

[The Cumbrian]

Ok, got it, 'on the tosh', means not straight in

Yes, but specifically in pairs with each pair having a screw/nail into the item at opposing angles, so the parts cannot be pulled apart easily.

Think dovetail only with screws/nails.

 

[oliver90owner]

Think dovetail only with screws/nails.

Err, sorry. Why? It has evaded a sensible link to the problem, or am I missing something simple?

Dovetails are not such a simple joint and can, due to their complexity, give good rigidity without recourse to nails, etc - hence why it is a favoured cabinet maker's joint?

RAB

Edit: Or do you mean : Think dovetails, only with screws or nails.
Understand it if that is so. But doubt Suzi will see it easily.

 

[The Cumbrian]

Think dovetail only with screws/nails.

Edit: Or do you mean : Think dovetails, only with screws or nails.
Understand it if that is so. But doubt Suzi will see it easily.

That is what I mean they give the effect of holding well because of the dovetail effect. I am probably over simplifying and using a term my father (a wheelwright) used to use.

 

[luckydunny]

That is what I mean they give the effect of holding well because of the dovetail effect. I am probably over simplifying and using a term my father (a wheelwright) used to use.

"Roll-On" Spring!!! (wheelright - get it?)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

"Roll-On" Spring!!! (wheelright - get it?)

Shall i ask Dr S for a lend of his coat? or has he taken it with him - again!

 

[oliver90owner]

my father (a wheelwright)

Someone who never new which way he was going - all the while going round in circles, but very well spoken, no doubt.

 

[region2]

I assemble my seconds from Thornes on an old kitchen worktop and square them up and ensure they're flat on the surface all through the process... That works for me!

R2

 

[Alabamaeee]

Have to say that i will only use poly supers from now on having had the pleasure of assembling them in 10 mins flat (pun intended).

They had nice tight fitting dovetails (Swienty brand) and carrying them full up with honey was so much easier than the old wooden supers I have.

Cost difference was a pleasant surprise too

If anyone produces a poly commercial I know what my next move will be.