HELP - What Frames ?

[shudderdun]

Hi,

I am new to beekeeping, hence this will be my first year.

I have been on several coursed ranging from beginner to novice and feel conformable with all I have learnt so far.

I will be making my own National hive, however I am totally confused with what frames to purchase for the "Supers" I have decided not to use Manley, but cant decide between SN1 or Hoffmann SN4.

I have made up my mind to use Hoffmann DN4 for the brood.

Can anyone PLEASE offer some advice on the above query and a reasonable supplier.

Many Thanks.

Gary.

 

[VEG]

Most people use plastic spacers in supers the first year then move onto castellated spacers using 10/9/8 space. There are loads of on-line suppliers if you do a google search you will find them.

 

[Hombre]

Several courses, most people are having problems just finding one at the moment.

SN1 with castellated runners in the supers. Ten pitch is good to go as the bees will draw them and it's a good general fit. Alternative start with 11 pitch and when drawn use 9 pitch for less wood and more honey in the box.

An alternative is spacers, which work well, but personally I find them to be a bit of a pain.

All a matter of personal preference.

 

[drex]

I started with T*****s budget hives as a beginner last year, and like them so much I have just assembled my 5th ( for a friend).

You get everything you need for a complete National hive and to me a bargain at £135. ( they use SN1's and 10 frame castellations).

I admit that there is little craftsmanship in the manufacture, but the bees do not seem to mind. At this time of the year you do not have to wait long for delivery either.

I would not like to have attempted to make my own hive from scratch last year, as I knew so little. The flat pack was my solution. I have since made my own nuc's from scratch.

Have fun.

 

[oliver90owner]

OK. Get SN1's and plastic spacers is my advice.

The rationale behind this choice, for early on, is: The frame spacing can be varied.

Frames can be put close together to encourage the bees to start drawing and then spaced further apart to the normal when they get started. They can be 'squashed' in one half of the super with a couple of chunks of 'filler' for steady colony expansion. They can be spaced wider to achieve heavier frames when capped.
They are cheap. Drawn frames can be stored up to about 18 per super, over winter, so less boxes of frames to look after (against the evil wax moth or mices, which will chew your frames to pieces as well as the wax).

Castellated spacing is, I have found, a bear. Frames are difficult to remove and all have to be removed vertically whereas spaced ones can be moved sideways after the initial frame is removed. In your first year, your bees may not progress to full supers.

Regards, RAB

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Quite a personal choice, but my view is

Castellation’s are restrictive and plastic spacers I loose

SN4 for me, and DN4 in brood, keeps it simple.

 

[Hivemaker.]

SN1 with castellated runners in the supers. Ten pitch is good to go as the bees will draw them and it's a good general fit.

I agree,i also use, and find this the best.

 

[MuswellMetro]

SN1 with castellated runners in the supers. Ten pitch is good to go as the bees will draw them and it's a good general fit.

I agree,i also use, and find this the best.

well i cut my fingers and gloves on castles, so i prefer wide spacers and SN1s see how they fit in this thread either 8/9 or 11/12 can be fittee usung wide spacers

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4008&highlight=wide+spacers

the dummy frames in the picture are only used on brood and a half otherwise i use an unspaced super frame as the 9th or 12th frame to remove first

 

[Hivemaker.]

well i cut my fingers and gloves on castles,

You should be more careful then...lol....or use plastic one's like i do,and i have never had a problem cutting my fingys, and thats using hundreds of them.

 

[VEG]

Hivemaker do you mean you use plastic castellations? If so where from.

 

[MuswellMetro]

well i cut my fingers and gloves on castles,

You should be more careful then...lol....or use plastic one's like i do,and i have never had a problem cutting my fingys, and thats using hundreds of them.

that shows how bad beekeeper i am , sliced the top of my index finger nearly off, blood and honey dont mixed,( well it does but blood flavoured honey doesnt sell well except in transylvania) so reverted to wide spacers

 

[Hivemaker.]

Hivemaker do you mean you use plastic castellations? If so where from.

Many places sell them,Th**nes,but we just make our own.

 

[ainsie]

Hi, same as hivemaker for the supers and hoffman DN4 in the brood.Was wondering whether to try DN5 with the wider topbar, as in langstroth, if this would help reduce brace comb but don't know if this would be worth the extra expense.Any thoughts? Ainsie

 

[victor meldrew]

that shows how bad beekeeper i am , sliced the top of my index finger nearly off, blood and honey dont mixed,( well it does but blood flavoured honey doesnt sell well except in transylvania) so reverted to wide spacers

Two strong studs protruding under the bench with a container below !
Simply offer up the frame, pull forward, spacer drops in container ,fingers well clear

John Wilkinson

 

[tonybloke]

I think MM meant that he injured himself whilst using metal castellations

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hi, same as hivemaker for the supers and hoffman DN4 in the brood.Was wondering whether to try DN5 with the wider topbar, as in langstroth, if this would help reduce brace comb but don't know if this would be worth the extra expense.Any thoughts? Ainsie

DN5 hoffmans are 35mm spacing ( as they came original from langstroth hives), so your box is 422 mm internal with 19mm side walls ( 460 external)

so 35 into 422 gives 12 frames plus 2mm, thats too tight for me so you end up with 11 frames and a wide dummied gap, or instead extra brace and burr comb , i find the wider frames tops are better

supers

i like 11 +1 frames for drawing out and 8+1 comb frames for honey as per my photo in thread, more honey less wood in the box, that why manley's are so wide

think hivemaker uses broods as super, though may be wrong, if so he has dn1 on castles in his larger supers

 

[DanBee]

A word of advice regarding the brood frames: go for DN5 rather than DN4. The difference is the width of the top bars. DN4 are 7/8" and the gap between adjacent top bars is significantly larger than bee space. They have a reputation for attracting brace comb. DN5 are 1 1/16" and as such maintain a bee space between adjacent top bars. I believe the difference is pennies per frame.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Like Drex started with a Thornes budget hive which had Hoffmans on the Brood and castillations on top. Very happy with that arrangement and intend to continue with it.

Just goes to show, ask 5 beeks the same question and get 6 different replies!

 

[Vergilius]

Plastic spacers. Easy and cheap...

Ben P

 

[Black Comb]

DN4 in brood and usually Manleys in the supers. (I follow Hoopers advice).

I have some SN4 which also work well.

Tried both plastic ends and castellations and didn't like either.