Hefting the hive,

[Hawklord]

Hefting the hive seems to be a trick only the very experienced have the knack for. How much should a hive weigh? My friend, Peter Hewitt happened to be on holiday in Wales and he was invited to the local Association's apiary meeting. The beginners where invited to try there hand at hefting the hive, however when Peter was asked he declined. He noticed how the hive was glowing in the sunlight and asked what it was made of. Oak came the reply.

IMHO the best and most accurate way to find out how much feed is needed is to open up and have a look at each frame, making a guesstimate and adding it all up at the end of the inspection.

 

[Millet]

As you obviously know this is my first hive so my opinion may not count.. does the time of day and weather play a part in the weight of a hive.. for instance if you heft the hive at 2pm on a nice sunny day obviously the hive will be lighter as a lot of the bee's will be flying..

 

[snelgrove]

when you have moved hives on your own full of brood with little stores you understand how heavy a hive should with stores. Honey is heavy and I am afraid hefting can only be gained by experience, lift a hive that has starved and you will realise how light it is.

 

[B+.]

obviously the hive will be lighter as a lot of the bee's will be flying..

You won't notice a difference. The colony is nowhere near as populace as it was even a month ago. I went through a few of my colonies today and I only found 1 with any brood at all. Its been dry enough recently so wooden hives won't be retaining moisture (polyhives don't even in winter)

I check mine with parcel scales. I aim for about 40kg in a double Langstroth

 

[Hawklord]

You won't notice a difference. The colony is nowhere near as populace as it was even a month ago. I went through a few of my colonies today and I only found 1 with any brood at all. Its been dry enough recently so wooden hives won't be retaining moisture (polyhives don't even in winter)

I check mine with parcel scales. I aim for about 40kg in a double Langstroth

How much of the 40Kg is stores?

 

[REDWOOD]

when you have moved hives on your own full of brood with little stores you understand how heavy a hive should with stores. Honey is heavy and I am afraid hefting can only be gained by experience, lift a hive that has starved and you will realise how light it is.

A full hive should be at least the same weight as two full supers.

 

[Finman]

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I do not compare my hives to anyone else. I have determined maximum weigh and minimum weigh to two box hives . When to stop feeding, and how much to feed more .

One box hives I feed full.

In spring I even food frames between hives that Sugar frames are finish when new summer begins.
.

 

[Cazza]

For me, I have years of hefting experience to draw on. I know that if I struggle to lift one side with my right hand, it's heavy enough.
Cazza

 

[Finman]

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I lift one side on the bathroom scale. Weighing boath sides gives no better information.

In spring after cleansing flight I try with bare hands, is the hive heavy enough. If it is light, I open the inner cover and look, do I see capped cells.

 

[B+.]

How much of the 40Kg is stores?

I'm not 100% sure. I did weigh an empty hive but don't remember exactly
Polyhives weigh next to nothing so the majority of it is food (only subtract the weight of frames and bees). By providing plenty of stores now, I don't have to run around in a panic feeding fondant in the spring.
Finmans guide is about right: a full box of food is ample. Mine may have a little more than that

 

[Eyeman]

I lift one side on the bathroom scale. Weighing boath sides gives no better information.

I disagree. Some years I've found a 50% difference between the 2 sides so I always weigh both sides.

 

[Finman]

I disagree. Some years I've found a 50% difference between the 2 sides so I always weigh both sides.

There must be brood in another side and 50% difference must bee seen in total weigh.

Before feeding I move all brood in the middle of lowest box. 50% difference is not possible in my hives, not even 30%.

No hives have starved in my apiary during 20 years.

 

[Eyeman]

Before feeding I move all brood in the middle of lowest box. 50% difference is not possible in my hives, not even 30%.

If your moving brood around why not move the brood to one side so that they only have one way to travel to access the stores. Reduces the chance of isolation starvation.

 

[Finman]

If your moving brood around why not move the brood to one side so that they only have one way to travel to access the stores. Reduces the chance of isolation starvation.

I pack my Winter bees so tighty, that they have not isolation starving.

Of course nosema or varroa can reduce Winter cluster, but I cannot know about it before it happens.

. BUT, the idea, that cluster starts from one side and moves towards one side is good. I have not met that idea before.

 

[Hawklord]

I'm not 100% sure. I did weigh an empty hive but don't remember exactly
Polyhives weigh next to nothing so the majority of it is food (only subtract the weight of frames and bees). By providing plenty of stores now, I don't have to run around in a panic feeding fondant in the spring.
Finmans guide is about right: a full box of food is ample. Mine may have a little more than that

If the box is full of stores where do the bees cluster, on the surface of the capped comb?

 

[B+.]

If the box is full of stores where do the bees cluster, on the surface of the capped comb?

Please refer to post #4 "I aim for about 40kg in a double Langstroth " (only late nucs formed in July usually stay as singles). Generally the top box is pretty much full. The lower box will have combs that the bees are back-filling but they still have lots of cluster room. This is illustrated pretty well in "The hive and the Honeybee".
Spring seems a long time ago now, but, some of you may remember the frantic running around that a lot of people did trying to get emergency fondant onto the colony. By providing them with plenty of food and plenty of space, I won't have to do that. As they eat what reserves they have in the lower box, they'll just move up onto the combs that are full of food above them. This is what they do naturally. The lower box can sit empty for all I care. It lifts them higher above the damp mist and cold from the ground and, in spring, they can expand downward as the queen lays more eggs.

 

[Hawklord]

This will be my 7th winter with bees. I have so far put an empty super under the brood, this is done before clearing the supers. My reasons are, that I believe it provides space for those bees from the supers, and also if they need more space to draw comb, they do that off the bottom bars. I've though about over wintering with double brood but never had enough equipment to do that. My current idea is to open a Pains poly nuc out to take 8 frames and go double brood with that. My belief is that it's better to over feed and take some away at the first spring inspection, than to feed fondant during winter or early spring.

 

[B+.]

My belief is that it's better to over feed and take some away at the first spring inspection, than to feed fondant during winter or early spring.

The empty super will provide exansion room when they need it, but, colonies are contracting now. If they needed space to cluster they would hang out the front door. Having said that, what you've done will do no harm and may do some good in lifting them higher off the ground.
Shortage of equipment is always a problem for beekeepers no matter how much you buy in advance. I don't know a beekeeper who has too much equipment! You just have to do what you can with what you have.
If you over feed, you'll usually have bees in the spring but, if you under feed, they'll probably starve. Lots of people give fondant as emergency food, but, bees do much better if they feed on properly ripened stores. I use fondant as little as possible and preferably not at all at this time of year. Theres a lot to be said for giving colonies a double brood box.

 

[Finman]

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Bees cluster into gaps between frames. They do not need not a single empty comb to make cluster. Conttoversy bees move from peripheria food to fill the last cells when brood emerge ..

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[masterBK]

Before I do the oxalic acid drip in winter I check a few colonies to reassure myself there is no brood. I have noticed that there are many bees in the cluster occupying empty cells head down in the cell. This is also described by Thomas Seeley in his book "honeybee ecology" page 112. I suggest that areas of empty cells in the comb are indeed important in clustering and temperature control.