Frame wire and brass rivets

[Hachi]

Anyone recommend where I can pick these up relatively cheaply? I was given a "Tip" today and want to try it out but the usual suspects want >£20 for wire and rivets in small amounts. They've got to be cheaper elsewhere.

What do you use/buy and where from please?

H

 

[JamezF]

Ebay is a possibility, though I couldn't find anything under £15.99 after a very brief search. A bit more effort might dig up something better.

I guess rivets particularly are something that it's mostly not worth the bother of selling in small numbers.

Otherwise I guess it's probably cheapest to find someone who wires their own frames (local BKA, perhaps?) and offer them a beer voucher or two for what you need. The way the postal service is going at the moment anything else will probably cost a fortune to send and won't turn up for three months...

James

 

[Newbeeneil]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/PROBEEALLY...t=&hvlocphy=9046493&hvtargid=pla-872329952844 Plus
https://www.simonthebeekeeper.co.uk/frames/10121-1445-brass-eyelets.html#/30-quantity-200But with postage on the eyelets you are probably almost over the £20 mark!

 

[Michael Palmer]

Here in the Dadant catalog:

1000 eyelets $12.75
700 feet wire $6.95
Eyelet Punch $5.95
Wiring Board $15.95
Spur Embedder $12.85

 

[Hachi]

Thanks chaps all ordered.

 

[mbc]

Thanks chaps all ordered.

I find abelo's wire best for the price (its worth getting good wire) but eyelets I just get Chinese ones cheap.

 

[Rob H]

Is there much saved by wiring your own frames V wired foundation or are the reasons people do it not just financial? thanks

 

[JamezF]

Is there much saved by wiring your own frames V wired foundation or are the reasons people do it not just financial? thanks

You might want to wire frames yourself if you're making your own foundation. I can't imagine buying unwired foundation and wiring it though. If you'd prefer to have a better idea of what might be in it other than beeswax and pollen then making your own foundation might appeal.

And of course you might prefer to pre-wire (or pre-fishing line/bamboo stick) frames if you're wanting the bees to draw out the frames from scratch. I bought unwired foundation to cut into starter strips and then wired the frames with fishing line this year and it worked nicely. Next year I shall try some with bamboo sticks instead of fishing line.

Drifting a little from your question (me? really?) the idea of allowing bees to draw their own comb in its entirety in the brood chamber appeals to me because it allows them to do it the way they want rather than being forced to work from worker foundation. I don't know for certain if that's genuinely any benefit to them, but I hope that it is.

James

 

[pargyle]

Is there much saved by wiring your own frames V wired foundation or are the reasons people do it not just financial? thanks

I'm foundationless so wiring brood frames does lead to the comb being more robust at least when it's fresh. There is a saving of about 40p a frame between wired and unwired depending on what quality of foundation you buy and whom you buy it from. The cost of eyelets and wire is a few pence a frame plus your time to do it. If you start making your own foundation then it's easier to wire the frames and then embed the wires into the foundation rather than trying to do it when you make the foundation.

 

[Rob H]

You might want to wire frames yourself if you're making your own foundation. I can't imagine buying unwired foundation and wiring it though. If you'd prefer to have a better idea of what might be in it other than beeswax and pollen then making your own foundation might appeal.

And of course you might prefer to pre-wire (or pre-fishing line/bamboo stick) frames if you're wanting the bees to draw out the frames from scratch. I bought unwired foundation to cut into starter strips and then wired the frames with fishing line this year and it worked nicely. Next year I shall try some with bamboo sticks instead of fishing line.

Drifting a little from your question (me? really?) the idea of allowing bees to draw their own comb in its entirety in the brood chamber appeals to me because it allows them to do it the way they want rather than being forced to work from worker foundation. I don't know for certain if that's genuinely any benefit to them, but I hope that it is.

James

Thanks very much for your thoughts and all makes good sense!

 

[Rob H]

I'm foundationless so wiring brood frames does lead to the comb being more robust at least when it's fresh. There is a saving of about 40p a frame between wired and unwired depending on what quality of foundation you buy and whom you buy it from. The cost of eyelets and wire is a few pence a frame plus your time to do it. If you start making your own foundation then it's easier to wire the frames and then embed the wires into the foundation rather than trying to do it when you make the foundation.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[madasafish]

Is there much saved by wiring your own frames V wired foundation or are the reasons people do it not just financial? thanks

I have Langstroth jumbos. These are big heavy brood frames. I buy wired foundation: and also wire the frames.. I have seen a frame twist and break when mishandled. (I also nail and glue frames when assembling).
Overkill? Well I rarely have any frame problems

I use shallow Langstroth supers so wired foundation is fine.

 

[Antipodes]

I can't imagine buying unwired foundation and wiring it though.

That seems to be a big difference between you guys and down under. I've never seen pre-wired foundation for sale here. We just buy a roll of stainless wire and thread a length of it through the frame end bars (they have pre-drilled holes in them), before heating the wire with a 12v battery or charger to melt the wax slightly into the foundation. I tighten the wire with a crimper before running the current through it.

 

[user 20297]

That seems to be a big difference between you guys and down under. I've never seen pre-wired foundation for sale here. We just buy a roll of stainless wire and thread a length of it through the frame end bars (they have pre-drilled holes in them), before heating the wire with a 12v battery or charger to melt the wax slightly into the foundation. I tighten the wire with a crimper before running the current through it.

I've done that...it's fun.

 

[XOF]

You can try local hardware stores, as they often carry basic supplies like frame wire and brass rivets. I came across a website that sells frame wire and brass rivets, you might want to check it out.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I came across a website that sells frame wire and brass rivets,

Link, please?

 

[Into the lions den]

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind...after two generations of messing about with wired foundation in UK style frames that strong prewired frames are the way to go...but then all our non UK friends knew that for a century. Spent a fortune drilling and wiring all our old frames.

The combs are flatter and more robust. No 'bellying' that can happen with wired sheets.
You can rewax them in almost no time when its time to do so. Its a cost at setup time but a huge saving later.
I do not know of ONE supplier of top grade frame wire in the beekeeping supplies system here. Always buy high tensile food grade stainless steel hard drawn wire min thickness 0.35mm...our supplier is Knight Precision Wire. Buy once...have it for the lifetime of the frames. Have some done in our early days with 'frame wire' from a UK supplier.....have been able to stretch out 12 cm from a four wire BS deep, so don't economise on wire.

Bought online brass eyelets are excellent and the Chinese cheap ones are just as good. Even better are stainless steel ones which last a lifetime and never cut through as brass ones can under tension and ageing.. The smaller the bore the better.

Foundation should be cut short. Let the bees attach it especially at the bottom of the frame...makes a flatter and more robust.

When the comb is old just cut it out carefully leaving the wires intact, boil the frames for around 5 mins in a sodium carbonate solution...it removes ALL the wax and propolis and leaves them sterile from EFB (NOT AFB..burn if suspected)

See comment in thread from Antipodes....this is normal...its the UK that are the outlier with our thin split bottom bars and grooved frames, plus considerably more expensive wired foundation.

Three pictures...first are really strong waxed National frames bundled up going off out to a customer...see the gap at the bottom bars..its important for the best results..
Other pic is a several years old Smith frame of ours that was boiled in soda...no scraping whatsoever....rewaxed at about 10 mins per boxful....its fast, efficient...and cheap. Initial investment but long term payback.
Third pic is the fastest way to take any slack out of the wires..squeeze the sidebars in and pin the slack with a drawing pin. Wire crimpers are not good on high tensile wire, and also a good bit slower.

There are now quite a few suppliers of this style of frames.....they are very much worth thinking about.

 

[pargyle]

Interesting Murray ... I'm foundationless but I wire my frames in exactly the same way and I replace the twin bottom bars with a single bar, I cut the strips that would hold the foundation in place off with my bandsaw and use a timber triangular starter strip that I coat in wax. I do nail and glue my frames together.

I see the frames in the photos are stapled and the way you have them wired is intersting - around the side of the frames rather than in and out of the eyelets ....and a thumb tack to tension tne wires. I like the simple machining of the frames as well.

I re-use my frames after boiling in washing soda but you are right about the wires available from the usual beekeeping suppliers -they do stretch andinevitably have to rewire them. It's not too much to put up with for me as a hobbyist but for you I can see the advantage of good quality wire.

The sort of frames you have there would be ideal for me - but I'm on 14 x 12 and try as I might on the internet, I can't find anyone that sells them in the UK.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I wire my frames this way
The “wires” have to be replaced though

 

[Into the lions den]

Interesting Murray ... I'm foundationless but I wire my frames in exactly the same way and I replace the twin bottom bars with a single bar, I cut the strips that would hold the foundation in place off with my bandsaw and use a timber triangular starter strip that I coat in wax. I do nail and glue my frames together.

I see the frames in the photos are stapled and the way you have them wired is intersting - around the side of the frames rather than in and out of the eyelets ....and a thumb tack to tension tne wires. I like the simple machining of the frames as well.

I re-use my frames after boiling in washing soda but you are right about the wires available from the usual beekeeping suppliers -they do stretch andinevitably have to rewire them. It's not too much to put up with for me as a hobbyist but for you I can see the advantage of good quality wire.

The sort of frames you have there would be ideal for me - but I'm on 14 x 12 and try as I might on the internet, I can't find anyone that sells them in the UK.

I stock them, and the wax to fit...even though that would not interest you.

They will be just like the pictured ones MOST of the time but had a sizeable special order last summer from a bee farmer who wanted them vertically wired instead, so the current stock...I have a couple of thousand...were an add on for stock to the big order I had.

First quality lime wood, fully assembled and wired.