Frame Assembly

[jenkinsbrynmair]

May I ask why you nail, in effect, upward through the wedge? Isn't it easier to nail horizontally?
Which way do other people do it - upwards or sideways?

sideways (90 degrees to what you have) or at a slightly upwards angle

 

[manek]

As a first-timer (no bees yet), I've a couple of questions around the timing of buying frames and foundation, hope you can help. I was about to order frames and foundation for two hives - that's a lot of wood and wax and it got me wondering how to spread out the cost.

So the the first question is whether I should order the foundation now? The reason I ask is I've read that foundation shouldn't be fixed in until just before use.

Also, should I order frames for the supers now as well, or can they usually wait until the hive has established itself - say a month later?

Thanks for your help.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'd order both. Thorne are still offering sale frames if you can collect at any of the conventions.Don't leave your supers till the last minute or you'll be knocking frames up in a hurry. I have my AS boxes all done, waxed and stored in the apiary shed.

 

[beepig]

it now takes me a half hour to assemble one frame.then pass on to mrs to pin as cant hold hammer. hey ho beats watching paint dry... only fourty to go

 

[Cussword]

So the the first question is whether I should order the foundation now? The reason I ask is I've read that foundation shouldn't be fixed in until just before use.

Don't worry, I've read somewhere on here that the foundation can be "freshened up" with a hair-dryer before fitting if it been stored for a while.
At least I hope so, I didn't need any supers last year so I have a load of foundation ready to fit in frames for this year.

 

[Erichalfbee]

it now takes me a half hour to assemble one frame.then pass on to mrs to pin as cant hold hammer. hey ho beats watching paint dry... only fourty to go

Hang on on there, beeping. The more you do the quicker you'll get better. Lots of us are thinking of you. Chin up.

 

[taurus]

As a first-timer (no bees yet), I've a couple of questions around the timing of buying frames and foundation, hope you can help. I was about to order frames and foundation for two hives - that's a lot of wood and wax and it got me wondering how to spread out the cost.

So the the first question is whether I should order the foundation now? The reason I ask is I've read that foundation shouldn't be fixed in until just before use.

Also, should I order frames for the supers now as well, or can they usually wait until the hive has established itself - say a month later?

Thanks for your help.

I'm in the same boat. I was advised to put at least the brood and one super frames together - but not to install the foundation until it's needed. I bought Thornes 2nds from C Wynne Jones and they put the foundation in a box to keep somewhere reasonably warm for the time being.

Having put the frames together I then decided I knew the dimensions to knock a nuc together out of ply - which has kept me out of mischief for the afternoon. If I hadn't assembled the frames I wouldn't have been sure about making a nuc box - at least with some frames assembled I can check they fit ok.

 

[Millet]

May I ask why you nail, in effect, upward through the wedge? Isn't it easier to nail horizontally?
Which way do other people do it - upwards or sideways?

Its not easier or harder both ways are easy to me, i prefare to nail that way as the wedge is easier to remove without damaging the foundation if i ever feel the need, also the wedge is wider at that point which is less likely to split, and from personal preference i think it gets a better grip of the foundation.

 

[oliver90owner]

Which way do other people do it - upwards or sideways? (re nailing wedge to top bar)

Think here of the fixing you are using. And, of course, the items being fixed together.

While it can be done from the side, from underneath must be preferable.

Many use a nail/brad gun or stapler. The usual profectile is 15/16mm in length and needs to penetrate the wood to a reasonable depth to secure the pieces. My brood frames are 27mm wide, so sideways penetration might only be a couple of mm with a short brad - definitely out of the question as the holding force is rubbish, contact between items is poor and it will be gripping against a soft material (wax sheet).

Further, the accuracy of placement is more important than when hitting a wedge from the underside. It is harder than with a target area of around half an inch (10-12mm). Energy expended in driving through the width of the wedge must be considered as wasted, so it is inefficient if doing manually!

Again, most use wired foundation so the wire tabs are bent over and retain the wax in position and can be through- nailed from underneath, and are securely gripped by nailing from underneath.

The exception might be unwired foundation, as it may be better gripped in that direction, especially as the nails will go through the edge of the sheet. But consideration as to how these sheets are started to be drawn is sometimes necessary as it can be problematic - if started at the top edge, the bees will attach it securely, but weaker colonies in less than a good flow can start on the face - with the possibility of pulling the comb away from the top bar in extreme cases. EHB, doing it diagonally is likely an effective once-fixing job, but I generally tack the wedge in place, if making lots of frames and not fitting the foundation until later. Splitting the wood is yet another greater risk from the side.

Wedge removal is yet another consideration and may depend on whether you recycle your frames. On balance it is probably easier to remove weges nailed from below? If there is any gap between wedge and top bar, it will likely be glued together, given time in in the hive.

But, your choice of course. I still reckon most will nail from underneath as the preferred method.

 

[Barbarian]

I tried nailing upwards but found that the pins I had protruded slightly through the surface of the top bar. These were a fingertip snag.

I now nail horizontally using a rampin.

 

[madasafish]

I tried nailing upwards but found that the pins I had protruded slightly through the surface of the top bar. These were a fingertip snag.

I now nail horizontally using a rampin.

I used shorter nails and solved the issue

 

[oliver90owner]

I thought that as a simple fix to the problem, too.

Slightly at an angle would likely be enough, but my 14 x 12s would only come through slightly if I were to use 19mm nails! I never bother to bury the heads on SN1s, so avoid the possibility by two precautions - easier to remove if needed.

I think I usually have 15mm brads in the manual nailer for SN1s, so no problem for for me - one way or the other, or the other!

 

[Little John]

it now takes me a half hour to assemble one frame.then pass on to mrs to pin as cant hold hammer. hey ho beats watching paint dry... only fourty to go

Oh dear - you might want to take a look at:
http://www.beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=48025.0
'tis the smartest idea I've yet seen for assembling frames ...

For those querying how best to nail frames - why bother ? I use D4 glue from Toolstation - 100% waterproof, and as cheap as chips. Glued parts can be handled with care in 10-15 minutes. Glue fully hardened in a few hours. Never had a frame joint fail yet.
Same story when making boxes - I only ever use screws to hold the joint tight (whilst the glue dries) if I don't have enough cramps available.

LJ

 

[madasafish]

Oh dear - you might want to take a look at:
http://www.beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=48025.0
'tis the smartest idea I've yet seen for assembling frames ...

For those querying how best to nail frames - why bother ? I use D4 glue from Toolstation - 100% waterproof, and as cheap as chips. Glued parts can be handled with care in 10-15 minutes. Glue fully hardened in a few hours. Never had a frame joint fail yet.
Same story when making boxes - I only ever use screws to hold the joint tight (whilst the glue dries) if I don't have enough cramps available.

LJ

I made the Michael Bush jig shown there..

I found doing individual frames was easier..:-0


I use 5 minute PU glue for gluing frames..(as well as nails)..on Lang Jumbos

 

[BeeJayBee]

May I ask why you nail, in effect, upward through the wedge? Isn't it easier to nail horizontally?
Which way do other people do it - upwards or sideways?

Yes, and it's harder to smash the foundation too. Some people aren't very handy or every accurate, even with a small hammer.