Foundationless super frames

[Popparand]

Hi all. I'm thinking of trying out some super frames without foundation. Plan is a narrow strip of balsa at the top of each frame to get them going. Also alternating in the super with frames with foundation. Is this likely to work out ok?

 

[pargyle]

Hi all. I'm thinking of trying out some super frames without foundation. Plan is a narrow strip of balsa at the top of each frame to get them going. Also alternating in the super with frames with foundation. Is this likely to work out ok?

Paint the strip of balsa (doesn't have to be balsa - any sort of strip will do) with melted beeswax that will help them get started. Yes, alternate with either drawn frames or foundation as that will help to keep the combs straight.

 

[mdotb]

I have found that alternating with drawn comb on a good flow they can sometimes extend the drawn comb further to create more storage in preference to, or at least in addition to, building on the foundationless frames. This can lead to some weird shapes, frames that only fit together a particular way, cannot be easily lifted etc. It’s not that big a problem in a super, trim back to a level finish when extracting and go again, but worth being aware of, and managing if necessary. Other times they’re fine, of course, and your mileage may vary.

What you’ve suggested should work, anyway, and is probably more consistent than a whole box of foundationless which is sometimes fine but sometimes all over the place.

 

[dn170221]

MDOTB makes good points re the thickness they will draw frames to.
The only other thing I would say is to consider marking the frames as being without foundation. I just put a line on mine (like a minus sign). When you have all your supers back at the end of the season you know not to extract those frames. I have done it and they extracted OK but it was a bit disappointing to subsequently realise I have extracted what would have been good cut comb

 

[gmonag]

I'm thinking of trying out some super frames without foundation. Plan is a narrow strip of balsa at the top of each frame to get them going. Also alternating in the super with frames with foundation. Is this likely to work out ok?

Yes that will work just fine.

All my frames are arranged like that, using starter strips about 2cm wide. The bees usually draw the starter strips before the foundation, which tells me they prefer it that way.

 

[DaveG23]

I did this last year and had no problems. Foundation less were mixed in with foundation.

Went through the extractor fine or can be used for cut comb.

I just used tongue depressors as the starter strip with no melted beeswax, from what I had read online it makes no difference.

Made mine with 2 vertical bamboo skewers for strength.

 

[oliver90owner]

...

Made mine with 2 vertical bamboo skewers for strength.

A good idea. Un-wired frames, particularly in their first year, can ‘blow’ when spun out - particularly if there is any crystallised honey on the frame.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

if you don't remove the wedge from the top bar, just trickle a little molten wax in the groove cut -between wedge and bar, I've even seen them follow the groove without any wax to guide them.

 

[Erichalfbee]

A good idea. Un-wired frames, particularly in their first year, can ‘blow’ when spun out - particularly if there is any crystallised honey on the frame.

Yep.
Stans first can I help you? (Like, can I use the shiny new extractor?) ended up with eight blown frames.
He’s never been allowed near it since.