Foundationless Frames

[Patrick1]

Can't see any reason why that wouldn't work, though never used plastic foundation myself. Good idea.

Good luck, I know from experience that the bees will mess you about if you mix plastic with wax frames, I run about 50 boxes lang and Nat on plastic foundation, I love it and the bees seem to, black is the best plastic, Ray Charles could see the eggs on that.

 

[fiat500bee]

Good luck, I know from experience that the bees will mess you about if you mix plastic with wax frames, I run about 50 boxes lang and Nat on plastic foundation, I love it and the bees seem to, black is the best plastic, Ray Charles could see the eggs on that.

My experiment so far shows that my bees are happy to work with starter-strips of plastic foundation for storing honey at least. They did this in a box where they could have preferentially chosen strips of thin, wax foundation which were placed at the same time. The placings were random and not in a favourable spot.

This is good news for me because I have acres of the useless stuff. But at least it is less likely to introduce traces of any medication or infection which might be found on commercially sourced wax.

It's true that the one full frame of black plastic installed in the brood-box is being consistently ignored by the bees; but my newbie experimentation will continue.

 

[pargyle]

The only thing I'd say is that they are not actually using the plastic foundation - they seem to have just started to build comb on the edge of it- what will be interesting is if they start to incorporate the plastic foundation into the comb.

You can see from a photo of one of my foundationless frames (one with a triangular timber starter strip painted with beeswax) that they actuall start building the comb right at the top of the frame over the starter strip ... it makes for a very strong attachment.

 

[fiat500bee]

The only thing I'd say is that they are not actually using the plastic foundation - they seem to have just started to build comb on the edge of it- what will be interesting is if they start to incorporate the plastic foundation into the comb.

You can see from a photo of one of my foundationless frames (one with a triangular timber starter strip painted with beeswax) that they actuall start building the comb right at the top of the frame over the starter strip ... it makes for a very strong attachment.

View attachment 21798

That looks good. I'll monitor this and what you say is true just now but I'm just a week in and they have put some extension on the plastic cells and that does include direct attachment to the top bar. The idea was that I have tons of this stuff and it was simple to do, but your fillet is a more elegant solution. On the next one I'm going to reduce the height of the piece of foundation; that means I would have capacity to create a vast number of these frames!!!!!!!

 

[pargyle]

That looks good. I'll monitor this and what you say is true just now but I'm just a week in and they have put some extension on the plastic cells. The idea was that I have tons of this stuff and it was simple to do, but your fillet is a more elegant solution.

You won't find any criticism from me ... I hate wasting stuff ... if you can put it to use and it works then I'm all for it. It will be interesting to see how they get on with it. Keep us in touch.

I've tried all sorts of starter strips .. cardboard dipped in beeswax, a dribble of beeswax under the top bar, the tlmber strips you cut off the frame to hold the foundation ... I've even made strips of beeswax and used them. They all work to some extent but I keep coming back to the triangular bits of timber coated in beeswax. They seem to start right at the top and build the strips into the comb which makes for a very firm connection - they also seem to draw nice straight comb in line with the frame - I have a theory that it's the downward facing apex that points them in the right direction - but who knows ?

There are very few wrong ways with anything that works in beekeeping.

 

[user 20297]

Has anyone found it necessary to bevel the cut edge of any starter-strip of foundation you hang from the top bar? This is a time consuming and possibly superfluous suggestion, in the book by Matthias Tunn which I am currently reading. Looking at some half-finished frames from last year, I can see that in preparation for extending the comb, the bees have chewed the sharply cut edges almost as if they have been melted.....I suppose they have been! Tunn is at pains to explain that the bees should construct the cells correctly in relation to each other and that the bevel ensures that they continue in the same pattern as the foundation. My bees couldn't care less; they just get on with it whatever.

 

[Erichalfbee]

My bees couldn't care less; they just get on with it whatever.

You’ve answered your own question?
I found a lot of the book quite astounding.

 

[user 20297]

You’ve answered your own question?
I found a lot of the book quite astounding.

I think the bloke had a lot of time on his hands; but he really loved his beekeeping and was no different to the rest of us in that he was consumed by thinking about it all the time. The thing I'm finding is that a lot of what he says is like the above...excessively fiddly in order to feel you're achieving something.

 

[Murox]

I think the bloke had a lot of time on his hands; but he really loved his beekeeping and was no different to the rest of us in that he was consumed by thinking about it all the time. The thing I'm finding is that a lot of what he says is like the above...excessively fiddly in order to feel you're achieving something.

Hit the Nail on the Head . I cant help but wonder if that fiddlyness isn't a predominantly male thing.
Tin hat on - duck&dive.

 

[sean-a]

Make sure that the hive is level

 

[BigAshW]

Have started using starter strips this season.

I spent a lot of time making sure my pallet stands were level when I set up the new apiary.

I have one demaree going with all starter strips which is going well so far.

Two more with alternate frames of strips and foundation as I had some left over.

The few frames I've added to the main brood boxes have all been drawn with drone brood which is one of the main reasons I started this method, (that and I'm too tight to pay for foundation), hopefully this will allow the bees to decide what they want in their nest since they know what they're doing better than I.