Foundationless beekeeping

[Itchy]

 

[pargyle]

Well ... I know I'm a bit biased but isn't it lovely to see all these totally bee built combs ... might not be to everyone's liking but it may turn a few heads that are undecided.

 

[Finman]

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If you get too much drone cells, you may use those combs in supers over excluder.

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[pargyle]

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If you get too much drone cells, you may use those combs in supers over excluder.

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That's interesting Finman ... are you suggesting that drone cells could be cut out from the brood area and 'grafted' into super frames ?

Most of the drone cells on my frames were found in the lower part of the frames - I suppose with a bit of creative carpentry it would be possible to make a standard 14x12 frame with a detachable lower section that is the size of a standard super frame ? Once it's drawn it is removed, an empty section attached and the drawn part of the frame moved up into a super ? Needs a bit of thought ... but it may be feasible ?

 

[Hivemaker.]

That's interesting Finman ... are you suggesting that drone cells could be cut out from the brood area and 'grafted' into super frames ?

Just use them as super frames complete, and keep them for that purpose, or cut them out after extraction.

 

[pargyle]

Just use them as super frames complete, and keep them for that purpose, or cut them out after extraction.

14 x 12 supers ??? Is that feasible ?

 

[Hivemaker.]

14 x 12 supers ??? Is that feasible ?

Yes, just heavy.

 

[Finman]

That's interesting Finman ... are you suggesting that drone cells could be cut out from the brood area and 'grafted' into super frames ? ?

Nothing grafting. Lift the whole frame.

Most of the drone cells on my frames were found in the lower part of the frames -

It depends time of summer when hive is eager to make drone cells. They even tear down normal workers foundations and make drone cells. That happens often ain frames which are gaints wall

Some guys have told that when they did not had frames in a medium box, bees made 100% drone cells.

 

[Finman]

Just use them as super frames complete, and keep them for that purpose, or cut them out after extraction.

First without foundations, then cutting part of combs away....quite a wasting the bee energy.

It is better to keep drone combs permanently in supers.

 

[pargyle]

Thanks for that guys ... back to the drawing board for my 'supers' plan then ? .... I never learn ..... As mine are currently on 13 Frames in my Long Deep Hive if I'm not careful I could end up with a Short Deep Hive with a 14x12 super on top ... it's beginning to sound a lot like a National ???

 

[Finman]

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Biggest losses of energy becomes at the beginning of summer, when bees rear workers for main yield. Drone larva feeding takes much energy from a small colony and then those drones does not forage honey and pollen 8 weeks later.

Start of surplus foraging is delayed then.

 

[pargyle]

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Biggest losses of energy becomes at the beginning of summer, when bees rear workers for main yield. Drone larva feeding takes much energy from a small colony and then those drones does not forage honey and pollen 8 weeks later.

Start of surplus foraging is delayed then.

Sorry Finman, you are off track on this thread ... Tom (and I) have both stated that any loss of production as a result of being foundationless is a price worth paying when offset against the apparent advantages and benefits. We know it does not meet with your style of beekeeping but perhaps there are people who have a similar perspective to Tom and others who are already foundation free.

 

[madasafish]

Thanks for that guys ... back to the drawing board for my 'supers' plan then ? .... I never learn ..... As mine are currently on 13 Frames in my Long Deep Hive if I'm not careful I could end up with a Short Deep Hive with a 14x12 super on top ... it's beginning to sound a lot like a National ???

Sound like a hernia recipe..

 

[Itchy]

I have to say, that if I was after honey production, I'd be on foundation all the way! My objectives last spring was to accommodate all 12 swarms, for as little money as possible.
Having watched those skep keepers in Europe, they appeared to value the wax harvest almost as much as the honey! The bees were expected to make new comb each season!

 

[pargyle]

Sound like a hernia recipe..

Well ... the LDH I have at present will need four strong blokes or a fork lift truck to move it so no change there !!!

 

[Finman]

Tom (and I) have both stated that any loss of production as a result of being foundationless is a price worth paying when offset against the apparent advantages and benefits. We know it does not meet with your style of beekeeping but perhaps there are people who have a similar perspective to Tom and others who are already foundation free.

You are dam right!!!!

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[jenkinsbrynmair]

Well ... the LDH I have at present will need four strong blokes or a fork lift truck to move it so no change there !!!

Don't do much hefting then!

I don't intend going down the foundationless route myself (well, maybe the odd hive) but it is fascinating, I always have a few bait hives out and to save a bit of faff transferring them into hives I put in a handful of wired frames with starter strips and it's amazing how quickly they set to drawing their own comb, and how good it looks - got a few scattered around the apiary now and you have to look hard to spot them. As I'ver said before, if bees want drone cells they will produce them whether on foundation or not in fact it probably takes them more effort if they are on worker foundation. They also tear it down and rebuild as worker again if they need it. You are not going to supress the building of drone cells, if they want it, they'll find a way of making it, but scattered around the place not in one spot as with free comb (which is probably why it's more evident.) So let's not leave an obsession with the drawing of drone comb mar this fascinating thread shall we?

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Yes, just heavy.

I like the idea of same-size boxes. Settling on standard, but that is a heck of a thought, at least while I am still strong.

 

[Swarm]

Well ... I know I'm a bit biased but isn't it lovely to see all these totally bee built combs ... might not be to everyone's liking but it may turn a few heads that are undecided.

Yes it is, let's see some more. Natural comb really is fascinating.

 

[Tom Bick]

Nice photo Itchy and thanks for that. Typical fresh white comb and it looks as though one the bees had made a good start on and then stopped or slowed down comb building.
As you housed a lot of swarms this past year you would have seen plenty of fast expansion then perhaps a slowing down as the older flying bees that came with the swarm would be dying off and then once the new brood start to come through then the hive pick up pace once more.
Nothing wrong with not wiring the frames but it would make for more careful handling of the frames and combs. Me I prefer to twist and have the confidence to even juggle the frames if required.