Foundation

[foghornleghorn]

I wondered when anyone would spot that. Was resisting getting into this thread but you hit the nail on the head. Number of sheets is one thing, guage is another. For example Langstroth sheets come anywhere from 10 to 28 sheets per Kg.

10 per Kg is great foundation but as wax is essentially priced by weight it is the most expensive option (but worth it). We have our own wax processed for us and it is about 12 per kilo. British and other sizes pro rata. Before deciding if your 100 sheets of whatever is good value you need to know how much wax you are actually getting. One persons 'it feels quite heavy' may be another persons 'it feels too light'. Part of the advertised description should be how many sheets per lb or kg.

Early in the thread the difference between wired and unwired in price was mentioned and the thread only offered the options of running the supers as unwired. Wired foundation is one of the UK's more bizarre variants. sure..it exists in some other countries but as a fringe product. Most serious bee countries...and many less so...run on unwired foundation all the time but with prewired frames. More work at day 1 but gee the savings thereafter are massive in time and convenience.

As regards the statement/allegation about the easipet product being make in poor conditions and with paraffin wax diluted wax? You do have facts to back that up don't you? If not, statements like that could be setting yourself up for a lawsuit. To me it is NOT obvious that this is the case unless you have seen a
reliable analysis. FWIW...IF it came from China it is most likely to have come from some of the most advanced facilities in the world and the assumption that Chinese product is inferior health and hygiene wise is generally a prejudice rather than a fact. What is sometimes the case with Chinese wax is that it is softer...it just is....and can lead to saggier combs. Chinese wax also has a risk of containing contaminants...mostly varroacides...in higher amounts and in more types...than we expect here BUT its all down to how tightly the client writes their spec. They can do anything we can do here, and wax analysis is commonplace there so if you order high purity on your spec you get what your spec says. However if all you seek s cheapest....that exactly what you will get.

I do not directly know the products being discussed and may never, but I have not heard any negativity about these suppliers.

Does going below 12 sheets/kg lead to any gain in comb strength?

 

[Finman]

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We do not have first or second class foundations. Some sell soft sheets and some very brittle. The later is pressed wax.

The price of foundations are quite same. It means that sellers do not arrange bloody price competition.

If you buy foundations from own wax, price is 3:50 €/kg. + drive car 300-400 km.

Our frame system is such that every one wires his frames and melt foundations with electric to wires.

I like thick foundations. I may ask to do such foundations as I want.

**********

I read about UK foundations. They are according "British standards". I wonder what are those when I read about sheets/kilo.

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[Into the lions den]

Does going below 12 sheets/kg lead to any gain in comb strength?

I don't suppose it makes a huge difference in most situations...but they can certainly start to extend it early.

However in situations where you need to use a loosener it does contribute to robustness of the comb. Hence in NZ the heaviest grade is marketed as 'Manuka Special'.

Some places you can order by weight, some by grade. A company I dealt with in the past used to have several thicknesses marketed as 'Manuka Special' 'Extra Heavy Brood' 'Heavy Brood' 'Medium Brood' Light Brood' 'Thin Super'.

Finman makes another good point about production process. Most of our UK traded foundation is produced by a rolling process whereby it is worked multiple times to make it flexible and less brittle. Some other makers have a different process with cold rollers producing the foundation directly from liquid wax, although through rollers it is really a continuous casting process. This product is loved by the bees but does result in brittle foundation and the combs break up more easily.

Which you would prefer depends on the individual circumstances of your unit.

 

[Finman]

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Bees work the wax thinner when they draw the combs.

You can see, that the edge of the cell is very thick and when the cell tube becomes longer, the thick edge moves.

https://www.google.fi/search?tbm=is...r=1.5#imgrc=Hg1OYIEVVUaFPM:&spf=1519322040579

Often I make langstroth foundations from medium foundations and and I join them with hammering two pieces together. The joint's thicknes is two foundations.

When I look later the joint, mostly I cannot see it. Bees have worked and thinned the joint area.



But that brittle wax material is impossible to join with hammering.
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[Bee Bumble]

Just weighed some of my foundation from stock:

Thorne Dadant deep premier unwired (10 pk) 1154g
Thorne Dadant shallow premier unwired (10 pk) 561g
Park Jumbo Langstroth wired (10 pk) 1034g

Thorne 14x12 premier wired (10 pk) 960g

All above in plastic sleeves.

 

[BMH]

Couldn't resist.

STB - 15 sheets per kg for national deeps

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[BMH]

Couldn't resist.

STB - 15 sheets per kg for national deeps

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any one have a comparison for national deeps from Thornes or Maisies budget range

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