Foundation

[BMH]

Was looking around for the best price for foundation and came across this.

http://www.simonthebeekeeper.co.uk/...-wired-foundation-x-10-265-266-394-418-detail

£69.99 for 100 BS Deep Wired Foundation.

Seems cheap to me.

£39.99 for 100 BS Shallow as well

I know i may run the risk of the sizing being slightly out but seems a good saving to me.

 

[Millet]

Funny enough i have been looking at the prices today after receiving a email and after seeing the price of the unwired shallow foundation i know what i will be buying soon.

 

[BMH]

Didnt even see the unwired ones. Well spotted.

I wouldnt personally go unwired in the supers but would have in the brood if the price was substantially less.

Only £5 per 100 so for that I will stick with wired.

Does seem remarkably cheap though for retail?

Probably made of chinese ear wax

Im sure the bees wont mind

 

[Poly Hive]

Ah the "saving"

The problem as ever is the devil is in the detail.

For a while I used to rattle the calculator and my brains looking for the cheapest deal.

I had no end of issues with some of my purchases. You see if the bees don't like it the saving is zero or worse.

Far far cheaper, in the long run, to spend that extra penny and buy on quality.

For many years now my bees have happily drawn out what I give them so they are pleased and so am I. When people tell me the bees won't draw out foundation I just know they bought cheap.

I should add I have no experience of stb and his product.

KISS

PH

 

[Eyeman]

Didnt even see the unwired ones. Well spotted.

I wouldnt personally go unwired in the supers but would have in the brood if the price was substantially less.

Only £5 per 100 so for that I will stick with wired.

Does seem remarkably cheap though for retail?

Probably made of chinese ear wax

Im sure the bees wont mind

Why don't you give STB a ring and ask him where he gets his wax for his foundation from?

 

[BMH]

This has nothing to do with keeping it simple?

Assuming that expensive = quality is a silly way to approach anything in life.

I also get really bugged by the mantra that if it works, why try to fix it.

If we all followed that philosophy we would still be throwing stones at each other and grunting.

Gradual innovation and economies of scale drive modern day society.

I bet you still get your utilities from British Gas and have all your savings in premium bonds

STB is a very well respected distributor. Im sure if there is anything wrong with it he would sort it out.

 

[colinc]

The trolls on this forum still grunt and throw rocks........
Just saying......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Poly Hive]

I am merely pointing out that cheap can be bloody expensive.

I buy judiciously.

We are not on mains gas and if we were BG would be my last pick.

When you have more experience you may find value in my thoughts. Or not of course depending....

Far from being a Luddite you are aware I have been promoting poly hives for 25 years? Hardly the work of a stuck in the rut way of thinking?

KISS

PH

 

[BMH]

I do find value in your thoughts and respect your views.

I just think the whole KISS thing doesnt allow for innovation or efficiency to raise its head.

I agree cheap can something mean more expensive in the long run. So if it was foundation posted from china or £25 for 100 sheets then alarm bells would ring.

But its a 20% saving on a bulk order at a quiet time of year.

I was only jibing about the utilities.

I just get it everyday at work when you try and make something quicker and slicker for the company and the end user, only to be told - 'I've done this for 30 years this way lad and I'm not gonna change now'.

It just bugs me!

 

[Poly Hive]

Has it occured to you they might actually be right?

I remember one dreadful night we were running casing 95/8" as it happens and a trainee drilling engineer was timing us and making notes. When we asked him what he was up to he said he was trying to find a better way.

with the rain running down our backs we looked at this drowned rat and said politely (ish) "If there was a better way we would be doing it"

KISS does not mean doing it the same way because that is how it has always been done, it means strip out the faddish faff and cut to the chase. There are people who delight in making things complex when the essence is simple and that confuses the beginners enormously so a nice simple method to work to is more than useful.

I hope that is more comprehensible.

PH

 

[BMH]

No. In a lot of cases they arent right.

The majority only appreciate what is comfortable for them.

Perfect example. Hard hats and PPE.

The struggles we had to get people to wear these was a daily battle.

A few avoidable deaths later and they are on board.

Another example. Electronic surveys. Didnt want to learn to use the hardware/software. Far more comfortable with a pen and paper.

Realised that their workload was cut in half and couldnt get enough of it.

Your example is slightly flawed if you are getting the trainee to dictate new ways of working to experienced staff!

And you hit the nail on the head with "If there was a better way we would be doing it". Its an incredibly arrogant point of view.

Do you think in 500 years we are going to be using diesel engines, HD televisions, blu ray disks, 1TB hard drives, 50MB internet, wires to charge things, fossil fuels to supply electricity etc

Unless the norms are challenged we never improve or innovate. People suggesting new ways of working should be embraced not belittled.

 

[Poly Hive]

What is arrogant about saying if there is a better way we would be doing it?

If there was a better way we would indeed have been using it to get out the bloody weather faster. Sheesh!

PH

 

[BMH]

So every time anyone experienced (or not for the matter) does something, that's it. They have reached perfection?

It sometimes takes someone to view things from outside of the activity to spot the efficiency. Not someone knee deep in it.

 

[BMH]

Btw - I am not being difficult for the sake of it and your points are valid in certain circumstances.

Lets bring it back to beekeeping.

Flow Hive. You are 100% right. Over complicated and unnecessary. Solves a problem that doesn't exist for a hell of a lot more money.

Poly Hives!!! Cheaper, more thermally efficient, etc etc etc.

If someone hadnt challenged Mr Cedar 50 years ago we would all still be using wooden hives without any knowledge of the benefits that poly can bring! Im sure the beekeepers back then (and now) state they have been doing it this way for years blah blah blah...

 

[Stiffy]

Why don't you give STB a ring and ask him where he gets his wax for his foundation from?

Think you will you find it’s either cheap Chinese or he’s acting as a re-seller for one of the larger businesses.
Bought some last year that was cheaper than my usual supplier only to find it had originated were I normally buy it!
S

 

[BMH]

I've always bought my foundation from CWJ and it's always come as Thornes but about 1/3rd of the cost.

Their prices have gone up quite considerably over the past two years so id thought I'd try somewhere else.

I'll report back once I receive it

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

 

[Millet]

I've always bought my foundation from CWJ and it's always come as Thornes but about 1/3rd of the cost.

Their prices have gone up quite considerably over the past two years so id thought I'd try somewhere else.

I'll report back once I receive it

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

I bought some cheap foundation on ebay from easipet several years ago and the bees worked it just the same as the more expensive thornes foundation which where both equal in my eyes and more importantly from the bees point of veiw, i have ordered several things from STB and up to now everything has been spot on.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But its a 20% saving on a bulk order at a quiet time of year.
!

Maisies give a 25% discount on bulk orders - I know it's still a bit dearer than SBK price but...............

I bought some cheap foundation on ebay from easipet several years ago and the bees worked it just the same as the more expensive thornes foundation which where both equal in my eyes and more importantly from the bees point of veiw,.

But it wasn't equal - easipet is cheap imported chinese 'wax' of dubious origin and hygiene liberally laced with paraffin wax. I wouldn't give a toss whether the bees 'liked' it - I wouldn't have it near my hives.

 

[Poly Hive]

I can assure you given the money spent on a casing operation, think millions here, that if there was a better way everyone in the business would be discussing it.

It is that simple.

No where have I said or implied, that experience = perfection. If you are reading it from what I have written then it's in your head not mine.



PH

 

[BMH]

Maisies give a 25% discount on bulk orders - I know it's still a bit dearer than SBK price but...............



But it wasn't equal - easipet is cheap imported chinese 'wax' of dubious origin and hygiene liberally laced with paraffin wax. I wouldn't give a toss whether the bees 'liked' it - I wouldn't have it near my hives.

That's worth knowing for the future.

Any idea what they consider bulk as I have had compatibility issues in the past.