Foundation prices for 2009

[hedgerow pete]

so lets cause some up roar, what about buying it outside the uk, i know the pound is not strong but with the size of orders you lot are talking about east europe and or china would surely still be cheepest of all

 

[Wendy122]

I tried to contact New Zealand etc. They all don't seem to want to play. Also remember different countries different wax sizes.

The big wax suppler in New Zealand doesn't even reply to emails asking for prices and terms.

W

 

[BKF Admin]

I suppose at the end of the day the wax in the foundation could have come from anywhere

I think it often does,plus it can contain any old rubbish that is offered in an exchange.

Whats the difference between Thornes premium wax and the basic stuff(and dont say price,I know what you lot are like)!

 

[Wendy122]

I do not know the true difference. I have seen both. Premium seems ????? to smell more waxey.

Same thickness and wires.

 

[VEG]

Maybe putting premium on there just means they charge more for the same thing lol

 

[OXFORDBEE]

Premium foundation has more wax per sheet than standard foundation so should increase your honey yield as the bees need to add less wax when drawing combs..

 

[Bcrazy]

Hi OXFORDBEE

In your latest post you say;

Premium foundation has more wax per sheet than standard foundation so should increase your honey yield

I accept that the amount of wax per sheet is more than a Standard sheet but your comment about increasing honey yield is nonsense.

You then end by saying;

as the bees need to add less wax when drawing combs..

In my opinion the bees will draw the comb to their own requirements as they would do if a starter strip, unwired foundation, sections etc were placed in the hive.
The thickness of the foundation has nothing to do with the depth or circumference of individual cells.

If you can convince me that Premier foundation is more beneficial than Standard foundation I will buy the former to test and see if your comments are correct.

Regards;

 

[OXFORDBEE]

Hi,

> Your comment about increasing honey yield is nonsense ...

Thanks for the postive feedback!

If the foundation is thicker it should mean the bees have more wax to draw out into cells before they need to add to it (with max they themselve produce using honey).

I mentioned the word "should" as I assume this is the reason that "Premier" foundation exists. However, it could also be that thicker foundation gives a stronger mid-rib and better comb stability.

I bow to your superior knowledge as I've obviosly got it wrong!

 

[Finman]

.
Oxforbee is right that bees have more material to make cells.
I have joined 2 pieces of foundations with hammering them together with 10 mm joint. The joint is thick but when bees work it out, it is like has been normal foundation. Now one can see that it was 2 foundations thick.

Sometimes wires go through the foundation but you can reuse slices this way.

 

[Bcrazy]

Finman,

You mention that by adding two sheets of foundation the bees have more material to make cells.

May I remind you that bees construct cells at a slight slope up wards although the imprint on the foundation is about 857 cells per decimetre. We also know that the different races of bee build different sizes of cells.

As for comb building bees do not use the foundation to use as cell building material.
The comb itself is entirely constructed from wax secreted by worker glands and shaped into cells using the mandibles and legs. The foundation is there to help them build the size of cell the beekeeper wants. This is dictated by the impression on the wax foundation.

A prime example of bees building comb is if a swarm can not decide where to build their nest then they build wild comb on a branch. They do not have foundation to use as wax for building cells.

So my friend I hope you see that bees do not use foundation wax to build the cells.

Regards;

 

[Finman]

Finman,

You mention that by adding two sheets of foundation the bees have more material to make cells. ;

I have not said that. Only 10 mm joint area, when I hammered pieces together.

;

So my friend I hope you see that bees do not use foundation wax to build the cells.

Regards;

In that case you are wrong. They even move from one foundation wax to another to build cells. I know that.

If you look the cell wall upper edge or the lower edge of comb, the edge is quite thick. When bees work the edges forward, they make much more thin "membrane" from the thick edge.

Sometimes you may see that they have moved brown wax from old comb to the new foundation.



.

 

[Bcrazy]

Finman

I see we have a difference of opinion.

I think I'll leave it at that.

Regards;

 

[Hivemaker.]

Just a small observation,when using thin foundation for cut comb,it stays just that,thin,which is more palatable. So if you use thick foundation for cut comb, from my observation it stays just that,thick,so if the bee's use this foundation wax for comb building, why does it not end up thin. like what is the point of using thin foundation.

 

[OXFORDBEE]

Just to throw some fuel on the fire of this discussion, there is an article in the Stratford-Upon-Avon beekeepers monthly newsletter that relates to this discussion the article can be found here: http://www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/Newsletters/March2009.htm

And the Article is: STARTER STRIPS ? A NON-STARTER?

Bear in mind that Standard foundation is mid way between Premier (thick) and Thin foundtion.

I'll let you all make your minds up on the political correctness of this article!

 

[OXFORDBEE]

A long time ago I said:
If the foundation is thicker it should mean the bees have more wax to draw out into cells before they need to add to it (with max they themselve produce using honey).

And added to this:
Premium foundation has more wax per sheet than standard foundation so should increase your honey yield as the bees need to add less wax when drawing combs..


To which Crazy bee replied:
I accept that the amount of wax per sheet is more than a Standard sheet but your comment about increasing honey yield is nonsense.

and :
The thickness of the foundation has nothing to do with the depth or circumference of individual cells.

So the question is:
If the thickness of foundation has nothing to do with the depth of wax why do the bees bother to thin it out and what do they do with the wax?

 

[BillyGoat]

Earlier in the season I noticed my bees had made large holes in some of the standard foundation in the supers- as if it had been moved elsewhere in the hive.
I guess it was used to help draw out the brood comb as this was a new hive.
Now the hive is more established, the holes have been repaired and I cannot even tell which frames were involved.

I have just harvested some honey from the hive by scraping the frames and am intending putting the resulting wax back in the hive. Will the bees re-use it or is this pointless.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Why use thin foundation for cut comb if the bee's are going to reduce the thick stuff to thin. Why use thick foundation at all.

 

[roche]

How about this for an idea - use some coloured foundation and see where it gets to. I've got in my mind that this has been done before...

And given that the equivalent amount of nectar will produce about 8 times more honey than wax, then supplying more wax to start with is likely to result in less nectar being used in wax production, and more in honey.

 

[Hivemaker.]

So it would make sense to use extra thick foundation on the heather for cut comb...and when people complain saying its too chewy,tell them its there imagination,as the bee's thin the wax down.

 

[OXFORDBEE]

That all depends on how much the bees thin the foundation down. I've had similar observations to the photo which was demonstrates the effect rather nicely (and was taken by someone else).

Just becase the bees appear to thin down the foundation it doesn't mean they will thin it down to the thinness of cut comb foundation(!). They do appear to sculpt out the bottom of the cells which is observed by the comb becoming more translucent.

I think someones done work on foundation thickness and honey yield and found they they bet better yeilds with thick foundation and large frames....