Forest beekeeping

[Finman]

How many hives could you afford to set in a single apiary in forest anyway, my friend? Min., max., and average, if you do not mind?

I keep only 2-4 hives in one site. Most of the time bees have not much to forage.
I have seen so much rubbish during my life in beekeeping.

All those plant catalogues what I have seen, they have too many easy mistakes that it revieles that the author is not very serious.

 

[BeeBeeKa]

NO, it is honey. because balance does not come down.

I mean: a honey needs about 5 days to get ripen, the moist will evaporate during 5 days after the bee has put last portion of nectar in the cell…So you can`t get the wright figure of honey, been brought, after 2 days that you mentioned, can`t you? Or am I missing anything? Well… In fact I see that it`s not all that simple as different factors can affect a day by day assessment of productivity… I did not get deep in that science yet.

 

[Finman]

So you can`t get the wright figure of honey, been brought, after 2 days that you mentioned, can`t you? .

Measuring is easy. You read a balance every evening after sunset when bees do not fly any more.

Here is my balance hive 2 years ago . Forest pastures.

http://koti.tnnet.fi/web144/vaakapesa/selaa.php?vuosi=2013&kunta=112

Then I made a artificial swarm and it added weight

11.07 evening, start .....0 kg
12.07.2013 .....6,5 kg .
13.07.2013 .....13,5
14.07.2013 .....20,0

During 3 days 20 kg added weight


.

 

[BrianO]

I have been offered an out apiary in a large area of well managed forest, mixed conifer/deciduous. It is quite a way (7 miles) from where I live so will need to be worth while.
Is this likely to be good for forage? The deciduous trees are mainly oak and beech with some sweet chestnut, and there are lots of forest tracks edged with flowers in high summer.

You can be sure they will find forage, you have said it yourself , flowers, bound to be bramble also plus more you will not have identified. Ideally though if you can locate in an area that gets morning sun , or if not morning some daily sun exposure. Or in a area of deciduous trees where on winter autumn leaf drop will mean some winter sunlight.

Avoiding low ground, frost pocket, and if possible avoiding dense overhanging branches, where dripping and falling debris will pee bees off disturbing them.

Again they will find forage

 

[enrico]

We have no mono crops where my bees are, we rely on trees, Hawthorne, sycamore, chestnut, lime. Thousands of flowers on one tree so generally a few good flowering trees will produce some sort of a crop.
E

 

[BeeBeeKa]

Measuring is easy.

Finman, let`s say you`ve got 5 days of rain before your first measurement, and your hive weighs 50 kg. Let`s say the ripen honey has 82 % density. Let`s imagine that bees bring the same amount of nectar every day of the same density of 15% just to simplify calculation and the idea that I want to explain.( here you can see already some factors I mentioned before(weather, nectar density etc.), that can complicate everything ). I.e.The next day your hive weighs 57 kg.
As soon as nectar is in the hive, it starts ripen, evaporating water and essential oils…Here we skip essential oils weight as another factor, as I did not see any doc. that would consider weight loss of honey via oils evaporation
If we take 5 days as a correct figure for ripening (I`m not sure about that as I`ve got it from a documentary movie about bees ), than we lose daily about 20% of weight of that water( at least- water ) that constitutes the difference between 82% honey and 15% nectar
5 days – 100%
1 day – X %
1x100/5=20%
The difference is:
82-15=67%
Thus 20% of 67% is:
67- 100%
X -20%
X=20x67/100 = 13,4%
That`s a daily percentage loss of mass of a brought nectar.
1)So, for the first day we lose 13,4% of 7kg, which is:
7-100%
X-13,4%
X =7x13,4/100 =0,938kg
2)Thus on a second day in an early morning our hive weighs about
57-0,938=56,062kg
Bees bring another 7kg of nectar, and we get
56,062+7=63,062kg
Now, we should calculate 13,4% out of 13,062kg as this is a new surplus figure exposed to evaporation:
13,062-100%
X-13,4%
X=~1,75kg
3) Day 3 early morning:
63,065-1,75=61,32kg
Evening:
61,32+7=68,32kg
The whole surplus for 3 days is:
68,32-50=18,32kg
But it`s not a honey surplus, as the honey surplus for 3 days would be 6,93kg :
(7x3) =21kg
21-100%
X-67%( moisture that must leave)
X=21x67/100 =14,07( that`s a water loss)
21-14,07=6,93kg honey
Compare this two figures: 18,32 kg and 6,93kg…It`s 11,39kg difference. It`s just to show an example of how wrong conclusions could be in a given circumstances relying on a simple weighing. If we take on account those factor that we whether skipped or did not enter, one can imagine now how difficult the surplus evaluation could be. It`s like a rocket science
But some are pretty good in rocket science though Not me, of course

 

[Finman]

21kg =6,93kg honey
Compare this two figures: 18,32 kg and 6,93kg…

However 21 kg honey is 21 kg honey when you use balance.

Calculation is as good as 'honey from forest 1000 kg/hectare.' The hive got 10 kg and where are the rest?

During a rainy day balance goes down a little bit, 1 kg/day, but not at all according your calculations.

.

 

[Finman]

I…So you can`t get the wright figure of honey, been brought, after 2 days that you mentioned, can`t you? .

Actually good flow continued 6 weeks. I took only few days as an example.
When IN PRACTICE it comes a rainy day in the middle of flow, a balance went down about 0.6 -1.5 kg/day. Rain adds the weight of the hive, but but...do not loose your mind .

But IN PRACTICE during 2 moths a balance summarize all what is going on in the hive. YOu cannot calculate them: feeding the larve, consumption of food, drying honey, building combs, respiration, storing pollen.

 

[BeeBeeKa]

During a rainy day balance goes down a little bit, 1 kg/day, but not at all according your calculations.

I`m sure it goes. I did not use a raining day during those 3 days taken as an "ideal" example just to simplify my calculation.

But IN PRACTICE during 2 moths a balance summarizes all what is going on in the hive. YOu cannot calculate them: feeding the larve, consumption of food, drying honey, building combs, respiration, storing pollen.

You see – that`s my point also. I just wanted to show that the whole surplus assessment is not as simple as it may seem. You can take your balance figures just as a low fidelity indicator for comparison between your hives, in order to deal with them in accordance with their approximate productivity as well as I understand. In the end of a day the real productivity is that amount of honey that you`ve got in the end of a season, is it?
I see your hives are pretty heavy How do you weigh them? Does anybody give you a hand?
You mentioned that you set 2-4 hives in a single spot, that`s not the practice that I`ve seen here in local forest… Don`t know how productive those 50 hives that I saw in a single apiary are, as I did not have an opportunity to talk to that particular beekeeper yet, but it seems to me it`s easier to service them at 1 spot then in 12-25 different spots in accordance with your practice…He probably sacrifice productivity for a sake of an easy servicing… What do you think?
Thanks in advance for your comments.

 

[richardbees]

.
I have been told that in Britain trees never give any forest honey=honey dew.
It needs long dry and hot periods.
Rain washes honey dew away from leaves.

But it revieles out soon, if the Place has something to offer to bees.

Finman, you were given bad info, can't remember if it was dry Summers but I definitely used to get 'honeydew' honey until I stopped leaving Supers on. No mistaking it as it wasn't dark but almost black with a distinctive taste/smell

.......and North West Germany is not far from London (which was a bit of a problem in 1940)

richard