Fondant and Activity

[Tiro Turbidus]

With virtually no heather flow, and robbing going on, I started feeding my two hives with 2/1 syrup in mid Sep. The colonies were strong, with lots of young bees, and the syrup was going at great speed (4 pints in <2 days). They abruptly stopped taking it down just as we began to have intermittent periods of night frost (I am in the Cairngorms).

On 26 Sep, I put 2.5 kg of fondant directly on top of the brood frames, an eke round it, crown board above that, and an eke filled with insulation on top. On a ‘final’ inspection while doing that, I saw both queens and saw that the brood boxes were about 90% filled with uncapped honey. Since then, there has minimal activity outside the hives, although on milder days there have been orientation flights.

I checked today (9 Oct) to see how the fondant was going. One hive had taken about half, and the other about two thirds. I am a beginner and I wonder whether I may have been a little early in applying the fondant. My understanding had been that the time to apply fondant was when they stopped taking down syrup, after which activity would fall for the winter and the bees would begin to cluster on the frames. In fact, there appeared to be little or no clustering and both the feeder ekes had several thousand (rather dopey) bees in them.

Is this merely the sign of strong colonies? Or have I been too early with the fondant? Or is something else going on?

 

[Beefriendly]

Is this merely the sign of strong colonies? Or have I been too early with the fondant? Or is something else going on?

I would question your definition of a strong colony. My strong colonies will take down 5 liters of thick syrup overnight.
Also I'd be slightly concerned that you are overfeeding them by adding the fondant, particular if you reckon 90% of brood box is full of stores. No room left for queen to lay any further brood.
More importantly have you treated them for varroa?

 

[Tiro Turbidus]

Well, I did say I was a beginner, so my definition of a strong colony may well be off. On the other hand, since they have pretty much filled the frames, is it surprising that they would take down less syrup? Thanks for the answer about the fondant - it seems that I may have been too quick to put it on. However, at this very moment (on a mild day) there is a lot of activity outside the hives, which looks like orientation flight. I didn't inspect the brood frames today (just had a quick squint at the fondant) but if there are young bees it seems that the Q is still laying, so perhaps some of those honey stores have made way for new brood. Thank you.

 

[Karsal]

What you have done seems fine. You are only learning and new to beekeeping.
It's hard at first to estimate how much feed your bees will require for winter but a good idea is to heft the hives to see how heavy they are before feeding then afterwards once fed. Fondant can be applied anytime over winter so a quick heft is sometimes all it needs to determine the need to add the fondant.

 

[beeno]

Uncapped honey in this case is sugar syrup and can quickly be used up on brood. Keep going with the fondant. From what you have said there is nothing to indicate that you have a problem. Don't disturb them any more as it is getting cold. If you have not treated for varroa however they may be dead come spring! I shall be putting mine to bed on Friday i.e. taking the supers off that I am using as ekes and getting all bar one down to one brood box.

 

[Tiro Turbidus]

Thanks Karsal, that makes sense, though maybe hefting is a bit of an art and would tell me more about the state of my back than the state of the colony. Nonetheless, I'll have to keep an eye on the food situation one way or another. I'd expected the fondant to last longer, which is what gave me the impression that there must be a good many bees in the hive, but they're clearly still quite active and the Q may even still be laying. I'd better lay in a bigger stock of fondant. Thank you.

 

[Tiro Turbidus]

Thanks Beeno. Yes, since there are at least some new bees on the go, and little forage to be had, it seems that they're going to be lapping up the fondant for some time yet. The varroa strips have been in a for a few weeks, but only a handful of varroa have dropped out, so here's hoping it stays that way. I'll carry on monitoring the fondant but keep it short. Thank you.

 

[enrico]

Thanks Karsal, that makes sense, though maybe hefting is a bit of an art and would tell me more about the state of my back than the state of the colony. Nonetheless, I'll have to keep an eye on the food situation one way or another. I'd expected the fondant to last longer, which is what gave me the impression that there must be a good many bees in the hive, but they're clearly still quite active and the Q may even still be laying. I'd better lay in a bigger stock of fondant. Thank you.

Only lift one edge, not the whole hive! Bend the knees!
E

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Fondant or syrup - makes no difference to the bees, to them it's just sugar. Putting fondant on instead of syrup won't alter their behaviour, they'll still take it down and store it if they can find the space (to the detriment of brood space)
If you have already had some night frosts, that would explain stores still being uncapped - it is getting too cold for them to reduce the moisture any more.
If the frames are 90% filled with stores, time to stop feeding altogether. I'm afraid someone on here is giving you some duff, if not dangerous advice.
They will last months with the stores they have, keep the fondant for when you think they may be getting a little light and in need of 'emergency feeding'

 

[oliver90owner]

I'm afraid someone on here is giving you some duff, if not dangerous advice.

Exactly my thought, too.

 

[Beefriendly]

No answer as to whether colony was varroa treated or not....in which case many of the "answers" may well be academic.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No answer as to whether colony was varroa treated or not....in which case many of the "answers" may well be academic.

Post #7, although blink, and you'd miss it.

 

[Beefriendly]

Cheers, I did miss it.

 

[Tiro Turbidus]

Thank you for that. Yes, sugar is sugar, whatever the form. I think that I may not have expressed my initial query quite the right way. It wasn't that I expected putting on fondant to change what was happening: it was really whether, in putting on fondant, I'd responded appropriately to what was happening; in particular whether I'd put on the fondant too early. The reduced activity had led me to think that activity and brood production had reduced to the extent that they had (or very soon would) become somnolent, and long-keeping fondant would suffice for a 'quick nibble' if stores became short. It seems to me now that end of season activity does not come to a sudden and complete halt but fluctuates for a while, perhaps in response to intermittent periods of cold and mild days. Perhaps also in response to a glut of inappropriate feeding. And, of course, as ever, there is no 'correct' answer. For now, I'll "keep an eye on things" and "see how it goes". Thanks everyone for taking the trouble to respond. (And, Enrico, I shall definitely 'bend ze knees'.)

 

[Curly green fingers]

I was going to say it's worth getting luggage scales for weighing hives , plenty of threads on here how to do it .
Why feed syrup and then give them fondant.
I no they might use a lot of stores for brood rearing but imho you need to weigh your hives regularly and feed accordingly . I've read to much on here of beekeepers feeding syrup untill they stop taking it down and then giving them a load of fondant sounds a little excessive to me .