Feed hole. To cover or not?

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Another nail firmly banged into the coffin of the 'gaping hole brigade' (mind you, the goal posts are moving slowly in the right direction) Used to be 'we were advised... by the local association to leave the (feed) holes open', but they have steadily closed up, somewhat, recently.

Ok, I am getting a bit fed up with this revisionist guff. I just found the very first thread on the subject I posted on, and this was my statement. All will see that it is perfectly reasonable and friendly, and I clearly state that we were taught the roof space is seen as outside the hive, therefore could be used to have comb cleaned up. I did not, and have not EVER said "we were advised to leave the feed holes open", as can be seen below, so, can you PLEASE stop reinventing history. Here is a link to the thread to see the response this elicited

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=11912&page=3

Could it be their natural instinct is to first secure the hive against intruders?

We were taught at our local association that the bees see anything above the crown board as 'outside'.. due to the pheramone levels. They leave the holes open on all the hives there, and only temporarily cover them up when using apiguard, or if using porter escapes to clear a super of course.

So, the bees' natural instinct is to close these 2 additional entrances (so they think) to their hive, however it does offer some advantages in terms of ventilation/evaporation? I dont know, just a thought.

Also, if they are meant to be a solid board, then why arent they supplied with 2 blocks (like closed porter escapes), so it is solid until you want to use it as a clearing board and then swap in the porter escapes? Maybe there is a gap in the market there ;-)

Admin/Mark, could you please ask the poster to stop misquoting/sniping. Thank you.
 
So well you might, but here is your post from that thread where you unequivocally stated you left them open.

QUOTE: If you dont cover them (we don't), surely the extra ventilation isn't bad?

That should put it to bed once and for all, shouldnt it? We curently have close to a 180 degree U turn. Goal posts by now are all at one end of the pitch I wouldn't wonder, as they've been moved so much.
 
You said that we said we were "told by the association to leave the holes open".

You lied.

End of.
 
No U-turn. In that thread I was asking WHY covering the holes was deemed so important. It turns out it isnt in summer, so we STILL dont most of the time.

We also learned that in winter it helps to reduce damp and the bees consume less stores if insulated, so we insulate in winter. Thats the whole damn point of joining the forum, to learn and apply.

No U-turn.

You continue to perpetuate a lie, now that is established, please desist.
 
PS Post reported to Admin again, for all those spectators. I will not have this "man" continually twist the truth and perpetuate lies, so until such time he stops, I will continue to stand up to the bullying. You have seen my original post, and his reaction.
 
So well you might, but here is your post from that thread where you unequivocally stated you left them open.

QUOTE: If you dont cover them (we don't), surely the extra ventilation isn't bad?

That should put it to bed once and for all, shouldnt it? We curently have close to a 180 degree U turn. Goal posts by now are all at one end of the pitch I wouldn't wonder, as they've been moved so much.

No need to shout, o90 - we're not blind
:biggrinjester:
 
No! YOU LIED. Be sure that given enough rope .... and all that.

And you have nicely tripped the trap door on yourself.

For the whole forum to see. Well done. Weasels comes to mind. Doubtless you will try to weasel your way out of it but your'e scuppered, sunk without trace. Go away now and cry somewhere else!
 
You said that I told you we were told to leave feed holes open. I have never said that. You lied and continue to do so.

"We were taught at our local association that the bees see anything above the crown board as 'outside'." does not mean "we were taught to always leave the feed holes open". Unless you are a sociopath (look up the symptoms, VERY revealing).

It is all up there for everyone to see.

Mods, PLEASE sort him out.
 
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Please explain to all how the bees are going to see anything the other side of the crownboard if ther are no holes in it? Keep digging.
 
What are you on about? Feed holes. If there are open feed holes, the bees see anything the other side as outside the hive. If you bother to read the very first thread you will see a corroborating BBKA article. If you put comb on the crownboard with feed hole open, the bees see that comb as forage. They will take that honey/nectar back down into the hive.

They see it as forage. Outside the hive. Read the article.

I simply told you that we were told (and the bbka article said the same) that if you put anything above the CB with an open feed hole, the bees see it as outside the hive. Therefore you can put comb in that space and leave the feed hole(s) open, and the bees will clean that comb - ie take the honey/nectar out. If they saw it as their hive they would build comb and STORE nectar, not remove it.

Some people report this happening, the BBKA article suggests this is down to the level of pheromones above the CB, and occasionally there is enough that the bees do indeed see it as the hive, and will build comb. Occasionally. I have never experienced this, therefore, for me, leaving the feed holes open to clean comb is a viable option, as it is with many other people.

What is difficult to understand here? You bang on about "gaping holes" being bad, and the bees not wanting holes in the roof. If that was the case, why did those bees in a box CREATE a hole in the very top of their "hive"? Because bees dont "think", they are programmed to do certain things given certain stimuli.

It is very clear what I am saying, and what I said. It is also VERY CLEAR that I never once said that we were "advised by our local association to leave the feed holes open".

Ever.

You lied, and continue to peddle a lie.

You are wrong.
 
Don't demand too much.

I did, didn't I!

One expects a reason (if there ccould possibly be one) and all that appears is another feeble distraction/excuse.

Talk about weaseling. The facts are: he says in this thread, that he doesn't and never has, and clearly in that thread he said he did. The two statements, however he might try to weasel his way out of it, are clear. One is a lie, or possibly both. QED.
 
i guess this is yet another example of ask a few beeks the same question and get all different answers!

When I started beekeeping towards the end of last Summer I think we were encouraged by our bee guru to close up the CB hole which was not in use for feeding. When one of us joined another BBKA and we went to that apiary visit, we noticed that that other association hives all had their CB holes left open to no detrimental effect.

Recently I had some brood frames which I wanted the bees to clean up and transfer the stores from those to super frames for easy extraction (I don't know of any honey extractor able to accommodate 14x12s) so my bee guru recommended that I try putting these above the CB and close up the hole to about 2 bee spaces. I suppose the idea being that the bees would see that area as outside the hive and try and bring the honey in to the hive. I'm trying this out now to see how well it works.
 
.
"I do not know but here comes Olivers automatic answer matic"

weikiup

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbX5dldhJlc[/ame]
 
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In our country, if the house or beehive is damp, we add insulation that the interrior is warm. The diffrence in air temp keeps relative moisture smaller in warmer space.


You British will never learn insulation, ventilation, dew point, condensation, heat production of the bees. Carry on like you have done millions of years.

I have said many times that go to second hand shop and buy to hives XXXXL wollen shirts.

Oh boy! Think about the thing that you lift your house roof up and put match boxes between roof and walls. why? To get room air dry...
:iagree:

:smilielol5:

It's an old tradition passed down from old beekeepers who have done it since the old days.

We need a cull - much like the Drone Laying Queen - the bees would appreciate it and be so much better off.

This practice is very common and taught frequently in Devon while Dorset less so.
 
My local coal burner which the activists wanted to shut down by force... is spending billions on upgrading, and installing as well scrubbers to make it as clean as possible.

More power to E-on in this case.

PH

We were shaken to find that old tyres you take to the recycling centre are used to fill a ship that takes them to S Africa where they are burned in power stations to create electricity.

In an environmentally friendly way of course.:rolleyes:
 
:iagree:

:smilielol5:

It's an old tradition

This practice is very common and taught frequently .


That is not a surprise. That method has bee used Dedaces in my country too.

The difference is that we have feeding hole open in winter, but not in summer, and guys have made huge inventions what to put there.

If you compare now system, professionals have only one polycover and no "rain water sevage" on roof.

I gove up from feeding hole because mice liked to make they nest above the feeding meash.


Like have Said: BEES STAND MANY KIND OF BEEKEEPERS

GIMME A SOLUTION, I INVENT A PROBLEM TO IT

.
 
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top ventilation I guess would have been vital, to allow circulation of air and to stop dampness.

Hi Jeff, (and for any new beeks who might like to get an idea of recent changes for the better)

It was considered vital by many, yes. The top insulation has long been used, but, I fear was fairly inadequate when considering the 'dampness' stakes.

When I started, a few layers of newspaper or a couple carpet tiles was the order of the winter insulation. While clearly better than nothing, it did not prevent a damp hive in the depths of winter. My mentor accepted some damp and mouldy comb, in spring-time, as normal.

As a new beek I had trouble getting my head around the apparent art of arranging the right amount of ventilation required. I very quickly grabbed the 'new fangled' open mesh floor idea (it was touted as a 'varroa' floor by the advertising hype type, but it didn't need much to spot it was not the revelation claimed in that department, but did offer an alternative hive ventilation system with no(?) drawbacks and and (independently) reported huge improvements in over-wintering.

So I tried one of my four home colonies on an OMF and it worked. Colony went through in good shape and no dampness problem at all. So they got changed in fairly quick time.

I reasoned that heat loss was a major winter problem as most of the consumed stores were carbohydrate and the bees were not exactly running around using up energy, so I insulated heavily (I still have some of the 100mm blocks of polystyrene that I jammed into a super for covering each hive crownboard). After all, if it wasn't going out downwards through the OMF, it must be going upwards.

Some local association members looked on my 'efforts' as somewhat unnecessary and even cranky (I changed to 14 x12 and to top bee space as well - for related and other reasons). They even told me so - that I was out on a limb with kit that was 'different to the norm' and that the urge to try out these non-mainstream ideas would pass.

How wrong they were. Many have now adopted the OMF and top insulate more effectively (most have even left out the matchsticks!) and admit that 14 x 12 is an alternative format to a brood and a half. Only the recent newbies with Langstroths (who feel a bit 'out on a limb' with them) are using top bee space, I think.

I do realise that the bees do not need the whole area of a complete OMF floor for ventilation and that the 'Harding floor' is likely a very good compromise, but I don't prevent them brooding higher in the boxes in spring, so spring build-up is less compromised by the mesh floor, in my hives, than for single deep boxes.

All these changes were not my revolutionary inventions, but progress by simply observing the facts and comparing timber hives with polystyrene equivalents. At times times I feel like I should have converted to poly-Langstroth a long time ago, as my timber hives + insulation now more closely resemble, or emulate, the polys. But the timber ones are still good and can compare favourably with the polyhives, as long as the insulation cladding is applied proficiently - but sooo much simpler to buy good poly these days! (and lighter and in National format).

I agree with much of that which Polyhive pushes out re poly, apart from his dislike of one supplier. And Finman has had the benefit of them in much harsher winter conditions than we have to endure in the UK, and writes far more sense than some, on the matter. Somehow, I don't think he includes all of us when the says quote: You British will never learn insulation, ventilation, dew point, condensation, heat production of the bees. Carry on like you have done millions of years. and, of course, he is wrong with the time-scale!!

How long have you been keeping bees? I am guessing at 5 -10 years? You seem to me to be a thinking beekeeper.

Regards, RAB

Gob-smacked! That's the most sensible thing you've ever said or thereabouts. :coolgleamA:

In relation to the Polystyrene hives, when returning to Beekeeping we looked at wooden hives and then discovered a write-up on Polystyrene and the OMF all very logical.

Result: We bought a load of them from MB and they are excellent - we would never consider wood and have turned down offers of free ones on more than one occasion.

They're all Langstroth and makes you a marked oddity at associations as does the polystyrene and OMF - the wheel was late arriving in many places so much time will pass before wooden hives, especially second-hand ones cease being promulgated by old, 'experienced' beeks who convince newbees to buy their old junk.

Well done and you have earned a reprieve (albeit temporary) from being put into a home.

Keep taking the pills! :cool:
 
Much more information can be found on our web site but because I haven't yet got 10 or more posts I can't publish them but you can easily find us using Google - West glamorgan Beekeepers and Jeff Davies Llanelli - Beekeeping the natural way :)

There you go Jeff - a link to our website - hope to see you next Sunday
Emyr


http://www.westglamorgan-beekeepers.co.uk
 

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