Feed hole. To cover or not?

[MandF]

Don't demand too much.

I did, didn't I!

One expects a reason (if there ccould possibly be one) and all that appears is another feeble distraction/excuse.

Talk about weaseling. The facts are: he says in this thread, that he doesn't and never has, and clearly in that thread he said he did. The two statements, however he might try to weasel his way out of it, are clear. One is a lie, or possibly both. QED.

You are wrong again. Is it a deliberate, desperate ploy to try and save face, or score points?

Quote where I have said "I never have"? Just do it.

If you cannot quote, you are a liar. And not a good one at that - funny how you are very quick to paste up direct quotes, often in childish large fonts, to support your claims (you think), yet you are unable to here.

 

[Into the lions den]

In some fear of starting this all off again, have waited for the furore to die down before posting this.

The cover picture of the 'Australian Beekeeper', which despite the name was actually the journal of the Victoria state beekeepers association, in one edition several years ago related to this matter. It showed a real old mess and was titled something like.......'OSR.......and built into the roofs AGAIN!' It showed several hives with the roofs off facing the photographer, and all were covered inside with wild comb. Their cover boards had holes.

Yes, when they need to they WILL view the space above a feedhole, even if its only half an inch deep, as part of the hive.

At the heather Andrew Scobbie in Scotland uses this very behaviour as a way to ensure his bees do not get congested, yet his crop does not get spread out over too many boxes and lead to an inefficient extracting season.

He places an extra super above the hole. When they finish the one below they come up and start above the feedhole. Once he sees that started the super gets moved below the board and another fresh one is added above. Works fine for him.

As posted elsewhere we do not use holes in our boards, so there are several ways to do things. Diversity enriches our hobby/craft/profession and is one of the things that makes it so interesting, and makes me feel so priveleged to have the good fortune to be able to make a living at it (2011/12 footnote to self...add word 'attempt' re make living lol). There are very few absolutes in this game, and hive types, holes or not, wood or poly, etc etc are just relative matters, to do with expectations and desired outcomes. Many dearly (and sometimes vociferously) held rules are actually just preferences followed with zeal, and the bees would cope, maybe better maybe worse maybe quite unmoved, if you did it differently for once.

Even a lot of the test books are opinion rich and fact deficient. Its hard to tell the difference at times, as so many different things will work out ok. For that we have to thank the basic resilience of the bees, who generally cope, mostly despite our 'helpful' interventions rather than because of them, and what works well for,one person in one location may actually be a problem in another set of circumstances.

Feed holes? Do as you wish. Its not a major issue.

 

[meidel]

hear hear and I do marvel atthe lucidity of your post at this time of the morning

up with the bees and all

 

[Tom Bick]

With ITLD its not the first time this argument has gone on to long on the forum we have far more important things to worry about.

 

[sandysman]

Can we move on.

As the originator this post I am genuinely sorry that my question has led to two of our members being banned. I posted the question as a point of discussion having observed an experienced keeper leaving the holes open on all of his hives, I never envisaged this result.

I for one would like to see both RAB and MAF back with us. They are clearly both passionate about their craft and have given me and I am sure others too some good advice in the past.

Is there any chance that the moderator can now remove this thread so that we can all move on and draw a line under this sorry issue.

Once again, if you are reading this thread chaps, sorry and I hope you are both back with us soon.

Andy

 

[jackbee]

not your fault andy, just one of those discussions that got out of hand

 

[scuttlefish]

At the heather Andrew Scobbie in Scotland uses this very behaviour as a way to ensure his bees do not get congested, yet his crop does not get spread out over too many boxes and lead to an inefficient extracting season.

He places an extra super above the hole. When they finish the one below they come up and start above the feedhole. Once he sees that started the super gets moved below the board and another fresh one is added above. Works fine for him.

Really interesting post ITLD, esp. the bit above about supers over the feedhole - thanks.

 

[Into the lions den]

hear hear and I do marvel atthe lucidity of your post at this time of the morning

Its was beakfast time for me. Up at 3:30 and out at 4, helping one team loading who were unsure of where they were to be picking up. Back in at back of 5 to wait for the other trucks coming through base on their way north. 'Fun' time of year, and my bed thinks I must be having an affair with some other matress as it sees so little of me. 1109 hives up on the moors as of this morning.

Witht he jetstream showing signs of moving at long last we want to have at least 2000 up by Monday to catch the Bell heather.

 

[user 6228]

"There are very few absolutes in this game, and hive types, holes or not, wood or poly, etc etc are just relative matters"

Truer than many may think. Research into how Bees make behavioural decisions has shown bees weigh up several different things against one another. We humans tend to make decisions by focusing in on one (as in this thread). Combine bee's strange to us decision making with a statistical spread of behaviour (another survival trate common to most species) and you get ....

 

[alanf]

Diversity enriches our hobby/craft/profession and is one of the things that makes it so interesting

Hear, hear. Always willing to have a nose around to see how others do it.

 

[WellAllbee]

I have been taught that the holes are for two things - Feeding and ventilation, and that if they are not being used for feeding, they should be left open at all times for ventilation. Closing them up can lead to condensation in the hive and start other problems for the colony.

Open holes coupled with OMF = adequate ventilation

 

[Poly Hive]

OMF should be coupled with top insulation.

No idea who or what is teaching that but.... not quite got the hang of it it would seem.

PH

 

[scuttlefish]

I have been taught that the holes are for two things - Feeding and ventilation, and that if they are not being used for feeding, they should be left open at all times for ventilation. Closing them up can lead to condensation in the hive and start other problems for the colony.

Open holes coupled with OMF = adequate ventilation

I think the gist of this thread is that, after it's all been thrashed out, neither way is going to kill the bees, although it looks (from here and the poll) as though most of the more experienced or larger-scale beeks don't use top holes for anything other than feeding.

But trying to get agreement from everyone on it is a bit like shooting Archdukes in Sarajevo or invading Poland in terms of the response it provokes.

 

[bobandbec]

I have always left the holes open in my cover boards whether on OMF or solid, and I do have both from inherited equipment. Also never insulated in any shape or form and always used wood.
The bees do just fine. Maybe I'd get more bees earlier or more honey (not this year though!) if I changed but I'm very happy with the way I do things.
It's everyone to their own. I look at the posts on here giving "good" advice then ignore most of what's said.
Would I suggest the way I do things should be adopted by other? Certainly not.
But find a way that suits you and most of all ENJOY your beekeeping.

Peter

 

[Ely]

Physics would suggest you keep them closed when not in use. By 'use' I mean feeding or any other useful thing they can be used for, like cleaning frames, which is also feeding anyway.

 

[Skyhook]

I have been taught that the holes are for two things - Feeding and ventilation, and that if they are not being used for feeding, they should be left open at all times for ventilation. Closing them up can lead to condensation in the hive and start other problems for the colony.

Open holes coupled with OMF = adequate ventilation

Wrong. You can use them for ventilation if that's what floats your boat, but what they are for, ie why makers put them there, is for feeding or for porter escapes. Ventilation may or may not be a benefit in a heat wave, but I would really worry that in winter it will prevent the bees maintaining temperature, leading to possible isolation starvation.

 

[Ely]

Wrong. You can use them for ventilation if that's what floats your boat, but what they are for, ie why makers put them there, is for feeding or for porter escapes. Ventilation may or may not be a benefit in a heat wave, but I would really worry that in winter it will prevent the bees maintaining temperature, leading to possible isolation starvation.

That's not adequate ventilation. That's a through breeze!!

 

[Skyhook]

That's not adequate ventilation. That's a through breeze!!

Or 'howling draught' as I would call it were it in my house!

 

[Pete D]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15235&page=7

Post 69 in the thread above seems to show that the bees will choose what they prefer

Pete D

For the record mine are covered and whatever I cover them with is always stuck down and sealed..........

 

[victor meldrew]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15235&page=7

Post 69 in the thread above seems to show that the bees will choose what they prefer

Pete D

For the record mine are covered and whatever I cover them with is always stuck down and sealed..........

Or maybe attempt correction of interference to the best of their ability ?
VM