Feed hole. To cover or not?

[Poly Hive]

As John says give the bees the option to either seal or not seal those holes and observe.

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

All i can say is either Finman is on his holidays or he's too busy banging his headd against a wall to post
I'd better update my profile to 6 colonies so he can't pick on me for being a 2hive amateur!!

 

[Pete D]

'2 hive amatuer' I think not..............
Inspected over 100 hives in a week, spotted stuff that others missed, 100% grafting track record, expert at the sales in procurring equipment, uses bottom entry floors, makes lots of his own stuff, master of concealment (hides a whole apiary from his wife), introduces queens successfully........the list goes on...........

oh and buys his round.............

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Coooerr you've made me blush Pete

 

[WellAllbee]

Until a few years ago, I followed the same practice as you and covered the crown board holes. Then I met a venerable and lovely lady from Grimsby, over a cuppa at a Thornes autumn auction - she told me to get in my car immediately - drive home 70 miles and remove the covers! (I hope she is reading this). She made me promise to email her when I had taken her advice. It does make sense as there is every chance of condensation forming when the holes are covered. I have never experienced brace comb formation associated with ventilated top covers.

 

[Finman]

Then I met a venerable and lovely lady from Grimsby, - drive home 70 miles and remove all covers! .

WAU, I hope not from hives..

Again facts:

- if you have a mesh floor. Then NO upper holes open. Just mesh.

- If you have a solid bottom, you need or not upper entrance open,

- feeding hole open, -- no idea to lead ventilation air to loft where it forms moisture into insulations and inside rain cover.

- I use upper hole in all hives and the diameter is only 15 mm. Main entrance is 20 cm x 1 cm.
My autumn is English type winter from Ochtober to Cecember= 3 months.
Just now I have here +6C.

Spring is very different because hive temp is high because of brood rearing. The hive stays warm and often I shut the upper entrance. Shutting the upper entrance in spring makes the upper box clearly more moist but brood area is bigger compared to more ventilated hives.

Closing the upper entrance is difficult if bees have learned to use it.





.

 

[user 6228]

The amount of heat you lose will depend on the fit of the roof and vent mesh you have etc. The unmodified standard T h o r n e s National hive I have, leaving the feeding holes open lost 10% of the heat as measured at the top of the frame

 

[itma]

Until a few years ago, I followed the same practice as you and covered the crown board holes. Then I met a venerable and lovely lady from Grimsby, ... she told me to get in my car immediately - drive home 70 miles and remove the covers! (I hope she is reading this). She made me promise to email her when I had taken her advice. It does make sense as there is every chance of condensation forming when the holes are covered. I have never experienced brace comb formation associated with ventilated top covers.

Top ventilation *might* be needed with solid floors, as still used by many who have kit more than 20 years old.

But top ventilation is *not* a smart idea to combine with an open mesh floor.



/ This is a fairy story, isn't it? What happened to the witch when her plans were foiled?

 

[rolande]

The unmodified standard T h o r n e s National hive I have, leaving the feeding holes open lost 10% of the heat as measured at the top of the frame

Do you believe that this loss of heat had a quantifiable effect on the colony, if so what was it?

 

[user 6228]

Do you believe that this loss of heat had a quantifiable effect on the colony, if so what was it?

This is an invitro measured effect on the box with 20W input (equivalent 0.1kg sugar/day) it lost 12.8% of its temperature.

This is ~ 2W this requires the equivalent of the lifetime effort of around 20 bees to expended each day to make good this energy loss.

 

[rolande]

This is an invitro measured effect on the box with 20W input (equivalent 0.1kg sugar/day) it lost 12.8% of its temperature.

This is ~ 2W this requires the equivalent of the lifetime effort of around 20 bees to expended each day to make good this energy loss.

OK.... let me try my question another way, was there a noticable difference between this colony and the others the following season?



EDIT:"the lifetime effort of around 20 bees to expended each day to make good this energy loss."

Is that the lifetime effort of 20 summer bees or 20 winter bees, or does it simply make no difference?

 

[Finman]

This is an invitro measured effect on the box with 20W input (equivalent 0.1kg sugar/day) it lost 12.8% of its temperature.

This is ~ 2W this requires the equivalent of the lifetime effort of around 20 bees to expended each day to make good this energy loss.

I wonder where you get those figures.

In autumn our hives use about 1-1,5 kg sugar in 30 days. Temp outside is then +5C to 5C. That is aqual about 3 W energy production.

In bees start to rear brood in spring, they consume 3-4 kg in 7 days.

In these days measuring outside is not modern scientic. There are too much variables in nature.

In laboratory they catch carbondiokside and merasure the food consumption.
In laboratory you may change one variable and follow effects.

Just make calculations make no sense.

.

 

[Finman]

Top ventilation *might* be needed with solid floors, as still used by many who have kit more than 20 years old.

?

I make new holes every year. My holes are not over 20 y old.

I have 45 y old holes too.

 

[itma]

I make new holes every year. My holes are not over 20 y old.

I have 45 y old holes too.

/ sigh ...

Yes, you do.
But you are in Finland and use solid floors (and top entrances) because of the effects of your extreme winter cold.

We simply do not get conditions that are normal for you.
In the UK, very few choose to buy (or make) new solid floors.
Almost all solid floors still in use (in the UK, not Finland) are rather old.
And it seems to me that mostly they are being used by rather elderly beekeepers who have been using them throughout their beekeeping life.



/ you haven't been dressing in women's clothes and pretending to come from Grimsby, have you?

 

[user 6228]

OK.... let me try my question another way, was there a noticable difference between this colony and the others the following season?



EDIT:"the lifetime effort of around 20 bees to expended each day to make good this energy loss."

Is that the lifetime effort of 20 summer bees or 20 winter bees, or does it simply make no difference?

no colony or bees were endangered in this experiment

 

[user 6228]

I wonder where you get those figures.

In autumn our hives use about 1-1,5 kg sugar in 30 days. Temp outside is then +5C to 5C. That is aqual about 3 W energy production.

In bees start to rear brood in spring, they consume 3-4 kg in 7 days.

In these days measuring outside is not modern scientic. There are too much variables in nature.

In laboratory they catch carbondiokside and merasure the food consumption.
In laboratory you may change one variable and follow effects.

Just make calculations make no sense.

.

i get the the numbers from my own measurements. I do original research.

 

[Finman]

/ sigh ...


Almost all solid floors still in use (in the UK, not Finland) are rather old.
And it seems to me that mostly they are being used by rather elderly beekeepers who have been using them throughout their beekeeping life.



:

You know, mesh floor come to Britain for varroa that you may count them every day.
I have never counted varroa mites, I just kill them.


You believe that mesh floor makes a beekeeper modern?
Just bye a 10 pounds mesh floor and you are a modern beekeeper.
You may bye 2 pound mesh and do it yourself.


Relax, I do not tell to anybody
.

.

 

[Hivemaker.]

OK.... let me try my question another way, was there a noticable difference between this colony and the others the following season?

??

 

[Into the lions den]

You know, mesh floor come to Britain for varroa that you may count them every day.

We have been through this one before Finman. Mesh floors arrived in Britain MANY years before varroa. They were not a varroa tool when there was no varroa, they were a tool that seemed to improve hive internal climate in winter especially. The use for varroa counting was just a convenient coincidence.

I have never counted varroa mites, I just kill them.

On that we agree.
.

Cannot believe the strength of feeling in favour of blooming feedholes...........which are just abominations (lol) that the bees hate. We do not have ANY active feedholes in any of our crown/cover boards. Nearly 3000 hives and all wrong......go figure. To me a feedhole is a good crownboard ruined. The bees think thus too, as testified by their constant desire to seal them up.

 

[oliver90owner]

To me a feedhole is a good crownboard ruined. The bees think thus too, as testified by their constant desire to seal them up

Whoo hoo! Another 3000 hives onto the 'no holes' side. We'll get there in the end - the 'holey' lot will eventually have to capitulate - and not before time, too.

Just common sense really, but let's face it there ain't so much of it about these days.