EU funding for beekeepers, not in UK?

[Chris Luck]

http://farmsubsidy.org/GB/2009/

Gravy train, slurp, slurp, slurp, slurp.....

Chris

 

[Cazza]

http://farmsubsidy.org/GB/2009/

Gravy train, slurp, slurp, slurp, slurp.....

Chris

I wish I was on a gravy train. I love gravy and trains and imagine loads of cash for doing essentially nothing. Yummy.
Cazza

 

[Chris B]

I'm not totally familiar with the economics of farming in the UK.
But what I do know is that all the farmers I know are getting on a bit and their sons have gone for careers outside farming, which speaks volumes really.

 

[Chris Luck]

So there should be lot's of cheap farms and land available then...

...which there clearly isn't, quite the opposite in fact.

Chris

 

[Chris Luck]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17252035

slurp, slurp, slurp, slurp...

....meanwhile the NHS is being underfunded, fine I guess until you need it.

Chris

 

[Bee-Key-Pur]

All the farms around me are all passed on to their kids and they are more than ready and happy to take them on.
However we are also next to a very large estate and they are more than willing to rent your land. They maintain them, replant hedging add drainage to fields if needed run the stewardship schemes and they apply for all the grants etc, they also have game keepers that take care of foxes, etc.
Have you seen the price of farm machinery these days? and at the end of the day, the land is still all yours.... plus I get the use of more than 2,000 acres to keep my bees, but I don't know if they get a grant for that...

 

[For want of a better word]

they also have game keepers that take care of foxes


Now I understand... the gamekeepers have been moved into social housing in urban areas releasing their quaint country cottages for 2nd home owners who wish to live in the countryside....

... hence all the URBAN FOXES !

 

[alanf]

does that mean that Europe produces more or less honey than it consumes?

The EU is an important producer of honey, accounting for around 13% of the global honey
production. Production in the main production countries is stable, while production in minor beekeeping countries is declining. Growth is reported in a number of East European countries, notably Hungary and Poland. The new member states Romania and Bulgaria also significantly increased their honey production. Due to the accession of these countries to the EU, the selfsufficiency rate of the EU increased by almost 10% to approximately 60%.

http://www.fepat.org.ar/files/eventos/759630.pdf - CBI 2009 (The Netherlands Foreign Ministry)

 

[REDWOOD]

OK so if someone gave you 6 million pound to spend, which at the end of it will have benefited the honey bee in the UK, where would you spend the money ?

 

[For want of a better word]

OK so if someone gave you 6 million pound to spend, which at the end of it will have benefited the honey bee in the UK, where would you spend the money ?

In Cornwall !

 

[Norton]

Give it to Pete and me - we'll make good use of it. We may even send you a postcard from Hawaii.

 

[REDWOOD]

Postcard!!! not likely i'm coming too

 

[For want of a better word]

Give it to Pete and me - we'll make good use of it. We may even send you a postcard from Hawaii.

And there me thinking Hawaiian bees were on the UK import banned list !​

 

[REDWOOD]

It's about time beekeepers had a summer holiday in the summer, can we get funding for that

 

[Sir Quej]

A tad racist don't you think?

Chris

What is racist about that comment Chris? I said I dont agree with our tax money being used to fund FREE health care and schooling for immigrants who have not paid into the system. That doesnt automatically mean I hate all foreigners....

Get a grip....

 

[Sir Quej]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17252035

slurp, slurp, slurp, slurp...

....meanwhile the NHS is being underfunded, fine I guess until you need it.

Chris

Rubbish... The NHS is not underfunded, it's just full of people who waste what money they have and it's too readily made available to immigrants who do not pay into the system to fund it.

Leeds General infirmary spent 300k plus making the entrance to the a&e "look nicer" about two years ago......

It just needs to be run better and with tighter purse strings.

 

[alanf]

Every business sector has its bad times.
However, Foot & Mouth saw farmers fully compensated for their loss. No insurance necessary, they were paid the full market price for their destroyed stock. What other sector would get this level of support?

Many businesses in the country were hit hard by FMD, agricultural suppliers, tourist dependent businesses, B&B, shops and businesses who rely on walkers and campers. Even airlines and travel agents running business into the UK. DEFRA ran some surveys after the FMD events in 2001, they quoted assessments by KPMG in some regions:

The most striking result that this data shows is the dominance of the sector most closely associated with tourism – distribution, hotels and restaurants account for 59% of the total loss in turnover associated with the 2001 FMD outbreak. By contrast, agriculture and fishing account for only 0.8% of the overall loss.

You can guess who got compensation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17252035
slurp, slurp, slurp, slurp...

Quite. The problem with any subsidy or market manipulation is that some has to draw up the rules. What counts is lobbying power and political sympathy. Even if perfectly even handed rules could be drawn up, the stats are always gamed to someone's advantage. Rarely those intended to receive the aid.

We have to work out what we're actually trying to achieve. Subsidising food production has a history of poor administration and perverse incentives. The current system appears to be directed to paying out for those simply owning large acreages. As ITLD and others pointed out, there are grants for starting a business but not doubling the size of an existing one - where's the logic in that? Start a new business with grants and let it buy your existing one out. Is that the intended policy or gaming? Beekeeping could be worth subsidising because of security of food supply, environmental conservation, employment or several other headings. As it happens I'm not against subsidies because there are no worthwhile aims; I'm against subsidies because they're nearly impossible to target properly and never efficient.

Most of the reasons for supporting beekeeping apply to part timers and hobbyists as much as the big operators. If the principle that local authorities have to provide allotments was established 90 or more years ago, why doesn't beekeeping get a similar official endorsement? It has similar food security, relief of poverty, healthy outdoors activity, wholesome food, community support type benefits. Perhaps the NBU isn't the most efficient way of supporting beekeeping, or even a broad measure like increasing honey production. But education and disease reduction is potentially one of the least worst ways of spending what is actually a relatively small amount of money. The NBU cost 1.6 million a year out of the 381 million spent on animal health in 2007/8. Compare that with the cost of FMD estimated at over 3 billion. Sometimes it's worth just paying to have a central body witha watching brief because insurance will never be able to cover the the full cost of problems when they really get out of hand.

 

[Chris Luck]

What is racist about that comment Chris? I said I dont agree with our tax money being used to fund FREE health care and schooling for immigrants who have not paid into the system. That doesnt automatically mean I hate all foreigners...

You don't have to hate all foreigners to make comments that are more than somewhat racist and as an immigrant along with hundreds of thousands of others that often find ourselves on the end of that type of nasty tripe here in France I can speak with some experience.

Chris

 

[Bee-Key-Pur]

they also have game keepers that take care of foxes


Now I understand... the gamekeepers have been moved into social housing in urban areas releasing their quaint country cottages for 2nd home owners who wish to live in the countryside....

... hence all the URBAN FOXES !

No, because there is no social housing around here, but you are correct about them having second homes, they all have them, but that's because the estate provides them all with beautiful old country houses foc, that many would give their right hand to live in, but life isn't perfect for them because they only have local bees in their front garden, unlike you that has the" best bees in the world".

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/ Hugh van Cutsem shoots with Prince Charles and is embroiled in a controversial scheme to protect some of Europe's rarest birds.

Van Cutsem, age 60, has just taken on a fourth full-time gamekeeper to control the birds' predators and encourage other declining farmland birds. Unusually, he is his own land agent, though he says he looks forward eventually to a quieter life.

He and his Dutch-born wife, Emilie, have four grown-up sons - friends, at various times, of Princes William and Harry. All the boys help with and shoot on the estate when their jobs and studies allow. The eldest, Edward, is a godson of Prince Charles and was a page at his wedding. For a time, he was rumoured to be a prospective travelling companion for Prince William on his gap year. He works in the City but is expected to take over at Hilborough eventually.)



Over to you to bore us about your AMM Corny Bees...

 

[Haughton Honey]

So there should be lot's of cheap farms and land available then...

...which there clearly isn't, quite the opposite in fact.

Chris

And why is this Chris?

Is it to do with the fact that paper (fiat) money is losing it's purchasing power at an increasing rate of knots and that holding a tangible asset within a family protects wealth more readily that an IOU from the central bank?

Anything that is sold as conferring title to something you can't see, touch, smell, p**s on or sign your initials on is probably worth nothing. Paper depends on someone being honourable if it is to be honoured.

Most farmers I know are hanging on to their land because they don't trust the stock market and don't want to earn 2% in the bank (a negative 'real' return if you consider inflation) even though EU subsidies going forward are questionable. Not that there will be an EU for much longer.

It has nothing to do with gravy trains and subsidies.



(apologies if slightly off-topic)