Early Winter Loss

[Bead]

Sunny afternoon so went up to do the fortnightly external check of my two hives. One was fine - bees still coming and going. The other was silent and still. Haven't opened the hive since early November, when the last of the feed went in, but risked a peek. All dead on mesh floor - 6 full frames of stores and pollen, no signs of disease, no wasps, no mice. The queen went off the lay after apiguard treatment, but I left the colony alone as I was advised she might restart once the treatment had finished. My plan was to bring the colony through winter then transfer some brood frames from the strong colony in the spring.

I've cleared the dead bees out. Should I leave the hive as is, close up the entrance (mouse excluder is on)and start again in spring? I don't have a deep freeze to store the frames.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Is the hive with your new queen in okay?

 

[Bead]

Yes, thank goodness. That's the strong colony.

 

[oliver90owner]

Close the hive to all entry. If diseased other bees may rob and become infected.

Not a lot of choice as to starting again, before spring, I would think?

Whether those frames of stores are infected with disease pathogens is another matter. Your choice and your risk.

 

[beeno]

Hi Bead,
Really sorry to hear about your early loss. Did you see the queen after she went off lay? What made you think that the colony was weak? Just curious as I had reservations about my nuc surviving the winter as it never really got going. Same story as yours the other hives were flying and this one not.

 

[Chris B]

On the assumption there was no brood, you can be reasonably confident it was a queen problem especially given the history. In which case just seal up for the time being.
My approach would be to replace any manky frames and reuse the remainder in spring. When people talk about pathogens in the comb we may as well be more specific so we can make an informed assessment of risk:
EFB & AFB: very unlikely. But if present it's also very likely in your other bees already.
Nosema: fairly likely. Not a serious problem at low levels. Manky combs risk increasing an infection much more than cleaner/newer combs.

 

[Bead]

Thanks for the responses. Will remove any older frames and seal up the hive tomorrow. I wondered about nosema, although there was no sign of fouling in the combs or around the hive front. None of the signs of AFB or EFB either (glad I did the class in disease recognition earlier this year.)

Beeno, I saw the queen once after she went off lay but it was getting late in the season and with the continuing poor weather I didn't want to do any full inspections when it was too cold. You asked about what made me think the colony was weak - well,after the apiguard treatment they became much less vigorous than the others, who were gathering pollen and nectar like it was going out of fashion. The fact that they pretty much stopped collecting pollen gave me a clue that they were still broodless. They didn't take as much food either, whereas the newer hive was putting away twice as much syrup, and they finished feeding earlier. Every time I did an external check, I put my hand over OMF slot at the rear of the hive to check for that reassuring warmth - it wasn't as noticeable as with the other hive - and then if the bees weren't flying I always put my ear to the back of the hive to listen for buzzing. This time, nothing. I made sure they had plenty of stores and I insulated the top of the hive in November.

I know these things happen, but I still wonder what I could have done to prevent it. Earlier in the summer, they were doing so well.

 

[oliver90owner]

I put my hand over OMF slot at the rear of the hive

Well, if there was an 'inspection' board left in, that was a first class way to increase any infections of the colony!

 

[richardbees]

Bead

I think there's something very worrying about a healthy colony with full stores dying off like that in November - I'm surprised no one else has commented on the same vein.

May I suggest you ask your Local 'Bee Inspector' to come and have a look? There are still probably a few dead bees tucked away.

Richard

 

[Chris B]

Richard, it wasn't healthy for some time. No brood means no long-lived winter bees to replace the rapidly dying off old bees, and no undertakers to chuck out the dead either, hence a pile on the floor.

 

[beeno]

Bead

I think there's something very worrying about a healthy colony with full stores dying off like that in November - I'm surprised no one else has commented on the same vein.

May I suggest you ask your Local 'Bee Inspector' to come and have a look? There are still probably a few dead bees tucked away.

Richard

Hi Bead and Richard,
My colony last year was broodless from 4th Sept. and died if I remember correctly during cold snap first two weeks January. So that fits - to alleviate any panic?

 

[Bead]

Oliver90, the inspection tray wasn't left in. I was referring to the lower opening at the back of the hive. The only time I leave a tray in is during varroa treatment. The hive has an OMF and it's on a slotted stand, so plenty of ventilation. Thanks for the suggestion anyway, but it wasn't that.

 

[beebreeder]

Nosema Cerane does not have the symtoms of Apis, with the season we have had a queen problem as Chris B has said is also likely, no queen means no drive to collect pollen as no brood to feed