Double Jumbo Langstroth

[CaptainCymru]

I overwintered bees in a double Payne’s 14x12 nuc. They did very well.

Yes that does sound good to me , it replicates a tree cavity quite well I think. I read somewhere that the bees are likely to utilise the outer frames where they may be neglected in a full size hive.Come spring you could then perform the split or I guess add some supers on top?

 

[CaptainCymru]

British and near European waters (as well as the occasional deep sea sweep in the SWAPP's) Senior Deck/Radio officer on HM Customs cutters

It would appear we are cut from the same cloth.The question is do you still remember your celestial navigation , i dont

 

[madasafish]

Considering the insulation issue, I have a Jumbo langstroth poly nuc unused from modern beekeeping, wonder if its worth using this as a hive with a few more of the same boxes on top. I think it is 6 frame. Would make splits and expansion a doss and keep that insulation level right up there!

I overwinter in 5/6 frame jumbo lang nucs made from 50mm insulation board. They do very well. (Home made on left)

 

[CaptainCymru]

I overwinter in 5/6 frame jumbo lang nucs made from 50mm insulation board. They do very well. (Home made on left)

Looks good that! way cheaper than buying designated hives I bet!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It would appear we are cut from the same cloth.The question is do you still remember your celestial navigation , i dont

Never needed it much where I sailed, I struggle now to remember LoranC and Decca - had to be examined on both during my NRAST, and radar plotting with a heads up screen and chinagraph pencil!!
And now they are talking of scrapping paper charts!!

 

[madasafish]

Looks good that! way cheaper than buying designated hives I bet!

I reckon total cost of nuc from insulation board including glue, paint, aluminium# frame runners and aluminium tape (to seal joins) is under £15.
Plans here: Styrofoam_Nuc_20100813.pdf (standard lang, not jumbo -easily extended)

# I use aluminium from fallen lorry/car exhaust heat shields so free.

 

[CaptainCymru]

Never needed it much where I sailed, I struggle now to remember LoranC and Decca - had to be examined on both during my NRAST, and radar plotting with a heads up screen and chinagraph pencil!!
And now they are talking of scrapping paper charts!!

Never used Loran C , its all GPS these days and for close operations the likes of Artemis and DP ETC!Yep ECDIS is the way now with split independent systems.The MCA scrapped morse a few years back but are still on with the sextant etc!Anyway back to the bees , looking forward to this experiment !

 

[CaptainCymru]

I reckon total cost of nuc from insulation board including glue, paint, aluminium# frame runners and aluminium tape (to seal joins) is under £15.
Plans here: Styrofoam_Nuc_20100813.pdf (standard lang, not jumbo -easily extended)

# I use aluminium from fallen lorry/car exhaust heat shields so free.

Those plans are great , will be a good project!

 

[Boston Bees]

Considering the insulation issue, I have a Jumbo langstroth poly nuc unused from modern beekeeping, wonder if its worth using this as a hive with a few more of the same boxes on top. I think it is 6 frame. Would make splits and expansion a doss and keep that insulation level right up there!

Yes, I do this (in national poly nucs). It's a bit of a minority approach, but I like it.

Pros and cons, of course - it wouldn't be the approach to use if you wanted to maximise honey production, as it would get too tall in summer.

The width of a nuc just feels "right" to me, as somewhere for bees to live, whatever the season. I have full size hives too, but I am always drawn to using nuc boxes where possible.

 

[CaptainCymru]

Yes, I do this (in national poly nucs). It's a bit of a minority approach, but I like it.

Pros and cons, of course - it wouldn't be the approach to use if you wanted to maximise honey production, as it would get too tall in summer.

The width of a nuc just feels "right" to me, as somewhere for bees to live, whatever the season. I have full size hives too, but I am always drawn to using nuc boxes where possible.

Looking at the cell count a double 6 frame langstroth nuc holds about the same cell count as a double national brood set up except the heat would be concentrated. Add another box on top with a QE for honey and that could make life quite easy.

http://www.eastdevonbk.co.uk/?page_id=358

 

[madasafish]

Looking at the cell count a double 6 frame langstroth nuc holds about the same cell count as a double national brood set up except the heat would be concentrated. Add another box on top with a QE for honey and that could make life quite easy.

Langstroth - East Devon Beekeepers

They are ideal for Queen rearing.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The MCA scrapped morse a few years back but are still on with the sextant etc!

You still need some morse for chartwork/buoyage. When I did my CPSC we still had to learn multiple man rowing and sail theory even though the captain teaching us said that he hadn't seen sails in lifeboats since he was a cadet - just before the war broke out!!

 

[CaptainCymru]

You still need some morse for chartwork/buoyage. When I did my CPSC we still had to learn multiple man rowing and sail theory even though the captain teaching us said that he hadn't seen sails in lifeboats since he was a cadet - just before the war broke out!!

Meanwhile in Norway everyone else learns about the new technology........watch a British vessel lay anchors compared to a Norweigan and you will see why they pay those boys the big bucks

 

[oliver90owner]

Firstly they are either broods or supers. Both are deep boxes and shallow boxes are often used as brood boxes (brood and a half set-ups).

Using an extra-deep box as a super, in any format, makes for a different approach to one’s beekeeping. The in-betweens go for the Rose system of one size for both brood and super (honey box).

I found that an extra deep, used as a super on OSR, was a superb way to get 14 x 12 frames drawn exquisitely even. Before that some outer frames were often not drawn out completely except on very strong colonies.

Extracting tangentially was a pain - but one did get a lot of honey from each set of three frames (and 12 Hoffmans in a National format box was obviously the one to choose).

I’ve overwintered a 14 x 12 National hive in two tiers of 6 frames (in modified Modern Beekeping Langstroth jumbo nucs). Worked very well except it needed a spacer (eke) between the boxes, as I recall.

I may have made up the full 12 frames with a couple of frames of stores from another hive or it may have been a couple of un-extracted frames of stores (I don’t feed sugar as winter feed unless really necessary).

Apart from the weight issue, getting a full box later in the season may be an issue. I would not add an empty jumbo anything, as a super, either early or late in the season because of the extra unused space and colonies rarely need more brood space than a single 14 x 12 brood.

 

[CaptainCymru]

Firstly they are either broods or supers. Both are deep boxes and shallow boxes are often used as brood boxes (brood and a half set-ups).

Using an extra-deep box as a super, in any format, makes for a different approach to one’s beekeeping. The in-betweens go for the Rose system of one size for both brood and super (honey box).

I found that an extra deep, used as a super on OSR, was a superb way to get 14 x 12 frames drawn exquisitely even. Before that some outer frames were often not drawn out completely except on very strong colonies.

Extracting tangentially was a pain - but one did get a lot of honey from each set of three frames (and 12 Hoffmans in a National format box was obviously the one to choose).

I’ve overwintered a 14 x 12 National hive in two tiers of 6 frames (in modified Modern Beekeping Langstroth jumbo nucs). Worked very well except it needed a spacer (eke) between the boxes, as I recall.

I may have made up the full 12 frames with a couple of frames of stores from another hive or it may have been a couple of un-extracted frames of stores (I don’t feed sugar as winter feed unless really necessary).

Apart from the weight issue, getting a full box later in the season may be an issue. I would not add an empty jumbo anything, as a super, either early or late in the season because of the extra unused space and colonies rarely need more brood space than a single 14 x 12 brood.

Thank you for the advice and experience , after some further research I think i'm going to try using a jumbo Langstroth nucleus (I have a new one spare) and use 3 bodies on it, 2 for brood nest and 1 for super. Hoping the chimney effect will make it more favourable and the boxes much lighter. In an earlier post it looks like a 6 frame double Jumbo lang gives about the same area as double brood national except avoiding the cold outer walls. Incidentally it is much cheaper than using conventional hives!

 

[rolande]

I'm not going to comment on the use of the extra deep frames for honey other than to say each to his own. With regards to the jumbo box, we use modified dadants with standard dadant/Illinois/medium supers and find them good boxes to keep bees in. A Lang jumbo fitted with MD frames would only hold nine and a follower. A second follower would take you down to eight with the capacity to add the ninth if you felt it was needed and would be far more stable than a tall nuc. Just another way of looking at the possibilities you have.

 

[CaptainCymru]

I'm not going to comment on the use of the extra deep frames for honey other than to say each to his own. With regards to the jumbo box, we use modified dadants with standard dadant/Illinois/medium supers and find them good boxes to keep bees in. A Lang jumbo fitted with MD frames would only hold nine and a follower. A second follower would take you down to eight with the capacity to add the ninth if you felt it was needed and would be far more stable than a tall nuc. Just another way of looking at the possibilities you have.
[/QUOTE

How do you find the therm value on the outer edges during the winter?

 

[rolande]

With a full complement of eleven combs they'll only ever be at one outer edge, sometimes the cluster will be in the centre of the box. They're all different of course. In perspective, the (proper) modified dadant is an eleven frame box with an outer width approx 9mm wider than the national. Your Jumbo's are obviously Lang width but that's the point; if you can winter a standard Lang (or a poly one if you like) healthily in your location then the jumbo should winter just as well.

 

[CaptainCymru]

With a full complement of eleven combs they'll only ever be at one outer edge, sometimes the cluster will be in the centre of the box. They're all different of course. In perspective, the (proper) modified dadant is an eleven frame box with an outer width approx 9mm wider than the national. Your Jumbo's are obviously Lang width but that's the point; if you can winter a standard Lang (or a poly one if you like) healthily in your location then the jumbo should winter just as well.

Yeah I see where your coming from , do you think the advantage of the narrow column in the double nuc would be an advantage?

 

[rolande]

Yeah I see where your coming from , do you think the advantage of the narrow column in the double nuc would be an advantage?

I don't know, a lot of people think it is but most of those same people continue to use some kind of standard hive. Even the warre boxes (which we're playing around with a bit) are eight comb units. Personally I value the flexibility of the standard hive and think, with jumbo depth frames, you're best having them in one box. But I'm always interested in learning that I'm wrong (if I am)!