Do wild colonies swarm themselves to death?

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No beekeeper can watch a tree three years in a row

No, but when you regularly pass a cavity with a wild colony - summer and winter then you can be pretty certain whether it has survived to the spring. when you check on a warm day in February or early March and there are bees flying in and out of the entrance, are you saying that it's possibly a newly arrived swarm?
Rubbish!

 

[Sanntos]

...and there are bees flying in and out of the entrance

A well sized cavity in an old tree, with old combs, will not be an unoccupied property for very long, if there are beekeepers in the neighborough. So there will always be bees flying in and out of the entrance, and it's hard to know which colony they originally belonged to

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

A well sized cavity in an old tree, with old combs, will not be an unoccupied property for very long, if there are beekeepers in the neighborough. So there will always be bees flying in and out of the entrance, and it's hard to know which colony they originally belonged to

are you honestly maintaining that a colony will swarm midwinter? Are you saying I don't know the difference between a cavity occupied by a colony and one just being investigated by a few curious bees (in the middle of winter!!)
I'm sorry, you are just talking absolute rubbish now in a vain attempt to win an argument which you lost some time ago. I've sat and watched these colonies - one of them I could actually see the comb and brood being worked.the colonies occupying them survived multiple winters before finally failing so your statements,

Normally they will be weakened in the first year, and die in the second.

Most probably repopulated.

the wild colony will perish in the first or at the latest second autumn or winter

Hold about as much water as a ripped colander.

 

[Ian123]

when you check on a warm day in February or early March and there are bees flying in and out of the entrance, are you saying that it's possibly a newly arrived swarm?
Rubbish!

Not so much a swarm but quite conceivable that they are robbing a dead out.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Not so much a swarm but quite conceivable that they are robbing a dead out.

nope, I've watched these two colonies for years, one is no longer as, when they finally died I blocked the entrance as it was a bit of a hazard being so close to the chapel door. the one in an hollow oak tree, near one of my apiaries died out late last spring after at least five years survival and was then recolonised by European hornets!
I no longer get any reports of ones high up in the wall of the church near another apiary as my friend's father who nattended there has now died. This was a well observed colony as the entrance to the cavity was inside the church so that during a flow the congregation could see a steady stream of bees going back and fore.

 

[oliver90owner]

You're kidding?

It's a strong held belief based on evidence. Lots of research and computer models. Not many mites are needed for a colony to succumb the first or second year

Rubbish. There are some on here that do not treat.

Varroa is a parasite. Parasites do not aim to kill their host - it’s pure stupidity on their behalf!

The comment re swarms with almot no varroa. Rubbish again. Varroa numbers increase exponentially, d-oubling about every “brood’ month.

I honestly think that beekeepers exacerbate the varroa problem by continual attacks on the mite. Left to their own devices, bees will control them and the mites will reach a point where they regulate their numbers so that they don’t automatically kill their host every year. Exactly, or similar to, mite resistance to fluvalinates - it appears after a few doses, but reduces if the stimulus is removed.

Sorry if that is too much for you to assimilate.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's a strong held belief based on evidence. Lots of research and computer models. Not many mites are needed for a colony to succumb the first or second year

Strongly held by you and a handful of others? as opposed to practical experience and observation in the field
seriously?

 

[Sanntos]

I respect what you are doing. Of course in the long run that's the way forward. But no treatment nearly always mean a lot of splitting and removal of drone comb, and so on.
At some time the bee will learn to handle the mite, and they do that more easily in a colony with high mite pressure. Meantime the colonies will be struggling, and the crops will be low.

 

[Fritillary]

As far as nature is concerned, isn't survival of genetic line more important than occupation of one particular nest/site? Friends have had bees in their roof space for decades, continuously. They have moved around the roof though in that time.

 

[DALEGREEN]

I have had a colony in my roof space continuously for 5years. I collected a swarm from it 2 years ago and both the original colony and the hived swarm survive without treatment. Not saying that they are very productive but they do survive untreated

 

[pargyle]

I respect what you are doing. Of course in the long run that's the way forward. But no treatment nearly always mean a lot of splitting and removal of drone comb, and so on.
At some time the bee will learn to handle the mite, and they do that more easily in a colony with high mite pressure. Meantime the colonies will be struggling, and the crops will be low.

Not in my experience I'm afraid !

 

[Buzzlodge]

If there are varroa present, the wild colony will perish in the first or at the latest second autumn or winter (except in Blenhem forest)

I have been following a wild/feral colony. I see it every day as the entrance is under the roof of my house.
The bees arrived in 2013 and survived until August 2017 when they died out and the site was then robbed out.
Despite my efforts to seal off the location another swarm arrived in May 2018 and are still there.
Strangely I have never seen either colony swarm.

 

[Sanntos]

If the cavity is small, they will swarm every year, and repeated swarming is a sort of varroa treatment in itself

 

[Boston Bees]

Strangely I have never seen either colony swarm.

Only takes 5 minutes and after that you wouldn't know it had happened.

Nice of you to let them stay though!

 

[Ian123]

If the cavity is small, they will swarm every year, and repeated swarming is a sort of varroa treatment in itself

Some are known to Chuck a couple of prime swarms

 

[Beesnaturally]

Some are known to Chuck a couple of prime swarms

Bees do that!
As Santoss says cramped colonies will swarm frequently. What else are they going to do?

But given space they act just normally, attempting to reproduce as often as possible between the two extremes of strategy: big early swarms, lots of smaller swarms, usually later in the year.

 

[Martimart]

There's a bloke in my local association, he doesn't treat for Varroa, carry out any inspections, manage queens in any way. He basically puts supers on and takes them off again, that's it. He has around 200 hives and produces a huge amount of honey. I've not seen it for myself but that's what he professes he does.

 

[Boston Bees]

There's a bloke in my local association, he doesn't treat for Varroa, carry out any inspections, manage queens in any way. He basically puts supers on and takes them off again, that's it. He has around 200 hives and produces a huge amount of honey. I've not seen it for myself but that's what he professes he does.

I'd be asking him to define "huge" (200 colonies, even poorly managed, will produce a "huge" quantity of honey based on many people's definition of huge)

I'd also be very interested to know what his winter loss %age is (you could lose 30%, and restock with splits/swarms, and stay at 200).

But most of all, I am profoundly grateful that I don't live within 20km of him.

 

[Ian123]

Bees do that!

Yes we know what’s your point.

 

[Sanntos]

There's a bloke in my local association, he doesn't treat for Varroa, carry out any inspections, manage queens in any way. He basically puts supers on and takes them off again, that's it. He has around 200 hives and produces a huge amount of honey. I've not seen it for myself but that's what he professes he does.

It's probably true, all of it, but we all know there's more to it than that. It's his description. Like Clinton's description of what can be regarded as sexual relations.