DLQ not found - what are my options?

[For want of a better word]

This year I 'v done three shake out on hives with DLQ after tapeing a QE over the entrance

Two worked well . On one I found the DLQ on the QE and the other two queens on the sheet....!!!! ( one was marked with a colour i have never used so it was from a friends hive close by!!!)

I then combined them with Q+ nucs

the third was a nightmare and swamped a nearby Nuc

MM.. did you put the Q+ colony on top of the now Q- colony or visa versa ?,
I have 2 colonies gone drone layer so all advice appreciated!
also take it you fixed a strip of QE over complete entrance with block removed, I can see the advantage there too... possibly a huge mass of bees could assemble around the trapped out queen if a QE set under the brood??
cheers!

 

[susbees]

OP, it's less to do with a queen being mated or unmated, it's largely a nutritional issue. The one I had last year was a caste swarm so had no idea of her nutritional status when they arrived.

The thorax is what gets through a queen excluder and that's more likely with scrubby queens.

Although sometimes there is a fault in the queen excluder...

 

[richardbees]

I checked the nuc today and the Q in question has now laid over 4 sides of brood, 2 capped, and everything looks 'normal'.

My marking cage has worked with other Qs this year but maybe all the other Qs were just overweight!

richard

 

[Salamagundy]

OP, it's less to do with a queen being mated or unmated, it's largely a nutritional issue. The one I had last year was a caste swarm so had no idea of her nutritional status when they arrived.

The thorax is what gets through a queen excluder and that's more likely with scrubby queens.

Although sometimes there is a fault in the queen excluder...

Thanks, Susbees. Is the nutritional issue in the pupal phase or after hatching, or both?

Bought the qe as part of a second-hand job lot when I started last year. Didn't check the size of the gap....

I did wonder if I'd inadvertently transferred the queen to the supers, but as there are eggs on both sides of the excluder I assume she can get through.

 

[Polyanwood]

Susbees is correct Richard. It is the thorax of the bee that prevents her going through the queen excluder. It is irrelevant whether the bee has a large abdomen or not, whether she is fed on cream cakes, or has lots of children as you suggest, will not change the size of her thorax. Probably the small thorax of your skinny queen enabled her to pass out of the cage of thorns.

 

[susbees]

Thanks, Susbees. Is the nutritional issue in the pupal phase or after hatching, or both?
.

Logically in the larval stage as they don't eat as pupae - head down food at the other end - and their physical health and size is determined at that time .

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[meidel]

Thanks, Susbees. Is the nutritional issue in the pupal phase or after hatching, or both?

Bought the qe as part of a second-hand job lot when I started last year. Didn't check the size of the gap....

I did wonder if I'd inadvertently transferred the queen to the supers, but as there are eggs on both sides of the excluder I assume she can get through.

another possibility is that the workers transferred the eggs up through the excluder - this has happened to a fellow beek when I recounted my tale of finding capped brood in the lowest super, ie nearest to the QEx, and assuming I had trapped a drone laying queen in my supers. He said in his case the bees even built queen cells out of the eggs they transferred up!!

 

[Salamagundy]

Logically in the larval stage as they don't eat as pupae - head down food at the other end - and their physical health and size is determined at that time .

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Oops... I need to reread Hooper....

 

[Salamagundy]

another possibility is that the workers transferred the eggs up through the excluder - this has happened to a fellow beek when I recounted my tale of finding capped brood in the lowest super, ie nearest to the QEx, and assuming I had trapped a drone laying queen in my supers. He said in his case the bees even built queen cells out of the eggs they transferred up!!

Thanks Meidel. So maybe she'll be in the empty box at the bottom of the hive after all. I'll have one more go at finding her and then send in the bailiffs.

 

[richardbees]

polyanwood

can't remember mentioning size of thorax or abdomen !

 

[Salamagundy]

Thanks for all the advice.

When I looked again today the queen had been laying in the top super.

In the end I decided to tip them all out in the hedge about 30metres away from the apiary. I thought it would be easier than making a Taranov board.

They got back before me, briefly considered taking up residence in the smoker, which I'd left on the site of their hive but quickly decided that the hive next door was a better bet. There is now a BIG ball of them under the open mesh floor as well as a lot around the entrance and up the face of the hive. I closed the entrance down to a couple of bee spaces, thinking the other hive might be overwhelmed. There didn't seem to be much interest in going to any of the other hives.

I'm guessing the queen may have hot-footed it back with them and may now be in the ball or even worse, in the hive....

Any further advice on what to do next would be very welcome!

As a footnote I've found a second hive with a drone laying queen - if I can't find her either (it's a much smaller colony so I may have a chance) I think I'll try a Taranov swarm on that one....