demaree question

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don't see why, they are not split and the top box would/should have ample stores on the frames.

I think he's alluding to the use of a standard Horsley or Snelgrove board which has a mesh 'vent' rather than a piece of QX

 

[Swarm]

Yes, he was replying about using a Snelgrove board, I don't see the need to feed. The combs should contain ample stores and there will be nurse bees of varying ages, some who will soon be foraging. I've done vertical splits but never had to feed any.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And in case anyone is wondering - the other advantage of allowing free movement of bees between boxes is that in the initial manipulation when you put all the brood up top, you don't need to worry about whether there's enough bees to cover the brood.
All the nurse bees will naturally migrate to the top box to care for the brood, leaving an even emptier box at the bottom so more room to discourage swarming, as well as fewer nurse bees for the fliers (the swarm instigators) to try and coax to swarm

 

[E&MBees]

Would it be possible to sticky this thread as it has lots of useful info on it? Many thanks.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Would it be possible to sticky this thread as it has lots of useful info on it? Many thanks.

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/demaree.46464/

 

[The Poot]

And in case anyone is wondering - the other advantage of allowing free movement of bees between boxes is that in the initial manipulation when you put all the brood up top, you don't need to worry about whether there's enough bees to cover the brood.
All the nurse bees will naturally migrate to the top box to care for the brood, leaving an even emptier box at the bottom so more room to discourage swarming, as well as fewer nurse bees for the fliers (the swarm instigators) to try and coax to swarm

This free movement of bees sounds a bit European to me....................aaaaaaarrrgh!

 

[jeff33]

I don't see why, they are not split and the top box would/should have ample stores on the frames.

I have always given them a little bit of feed straight after the manipulation if they don't have stores in the box or a flow is not on. I assume that they may not find their way down straight away. I don't bother after that as the field bees will fill these frames if in a flow...I will save my syrup in the future then!

 

[Swarm]

Let's not forget the best part, once they are Demarreed you can stop your five day inspections and relax because they won't swarm when the cells are capped.

 

[beeno]

I've seen differences of opinion on this topic before. Could the queen cells be best categorised as neither emergency or supersedure....so give them some other name perhaps? A fourth type of queen cell?

Primary queen cells are queen cups that the queen lays in. The beekeeper then calls it a swarm cell or supersedure cell purportedly depending on how many that there are, positioning on the comb and whether the colony swarms on them or not! Does not seem very scientific to me and they often prove the beek wrong. Secondary Emergency queen cells are constructed from a worker cell that already has an egg in it and was not originally intended to house a queen, but a worker bee as in a demaree. To then hypothesize as to whether the bees make an emergency cell under the supersedure impulse seems to me to be the construction of another beekeepers' myth and absolutely bonkers.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Primary queen cells are queen cups that the queen lays in. The beekeeper then calls it a swarm cell or supersedure cell purportedly depending on how many that there are, positioning on the comb and whether the colony swarms on them or not! Does not seem very scientific to me and they often prove the beek wrong. Secondary Emergency queen cells are constructed from a worker cell that already has an egg in it and was not originally intended to house a queen, but a worker bee as in a demaree. To then hypothesize as to whether the bees make an emergency cell under the supersedure impulse seems to me to be the construction of another beekeepers' myth and absolutely bonkers.

We are all bonkers.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

We are all bonkers.

Just that some do a better job of it than others - even wear a badge to prove it.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I guess it might rest in the way you categorise queen cells. Do you have a black and white view; primary queen cells are cells where the queen has laid in a queen cup, emergency cells where the workers raise a queen from a worker cell? Or do you look at it from the bees’ perspective. One is to facilitate reproduction of the colony another to replace a failing queen and yet another to replace an absent queen? What are the bees doing in the top box of a Demarree?

 

[Antipodes]

I guess it might rest in the way you categorise queen cells. Do you have a black and white view; primary queen cells are cells where the queen has laid in a queen cup, emergency cells where the workers raise a queen from a worker cell? Or do you look at it from the bees’ perspective. One is to facilitate reproduction of the colony another to replace a failing queen and yet another to replace an absent queen? What are the bees doing in the top box of a Demarree?

I can see both points of view. From the bees' perspective, the queen cell was not a queen cell ab initio. I'm wondering whether there is anything physically different about the demaree queen cells as compared to standard supersedure cells or do the bees modify the demaree queen cell to make it the same?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I can see both points of view. From the bees' perspective, the queen cell was not a queen cell ab initio. I'm wondering whether there is anything physically different about the demaree queen cells as compared to standard supersedure cells or do the bees modify the demaree queen cell to make it the same?

Well there is only the one perspective. Ours is "Man made"
I can say that if you get emergency cells due to sudden queen absence you get lots of them made on all ages of larva whereas with a Demaree you get only a few. In my experience

 

[rolande]

This free movement of bees sounds a bit European to me....................aaaaaaarrrgh!

You're ok, it's American. Not quite the same thing that's being discussed here but the outcome is along the same lines. First part of link can be skipped!
https://chestofbooks.com/animals/be...-Of-Selective-Breeding-And-Queen-Rearing.html

 

[Frizzaldo]

how does inspection work when you've got another queen in the top brood box? any tips to avoid knocking or dropping her out of the brood box when you lift it from that height to check if you need to add a super in the middle?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

how does inspection work when you've got another queen in the top brood box? any tips to avoid knocking or dropping her out of the brood box when you lift it from that height to check if you need to add a super in the middle?

you just add them on top instead, when I need to go further down than the top box I just lift the brood box and the Demarree board as one - if the queen does drop off, she'll be on the board and able to climb back on to the frame.

 

[Erichalfbee]

how does inspection work when you've got another queen in the top brood box? any tips to avoid knocking or dropping her out of the brood box when you lift it from that height to check if you need to add a super in the middle?

Put supers on top....oops
No need to inspect bottom box

 

[The Poot]

You're ok, it's American. Not quite the same thing that's being discussed here but the outcome is along the same lines. First part of link can be skipped!
https://chestofbooks.com/animals/be...-Of-Selective-Breeding-And-Queen-Rearing.html

Thanks for the link - looks interesting from more than a beekeeping perspective

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I can see both points of view. From the bees' perspective, the queen cell was not a queen cell ab initio. I'm wondering whether there is anything physically different about the demaree queen cells as compared to standard supersedure cells or do the bees modify the demaree queen cell to make it the same?

Well there is only the one perspective. Ours is "Man made"
I can say that if you get emergency cells due to sudden queen absence you get lots of them made on all ages of larva whereas with a Demaree you get only a few. In my experience

I used to inspect on day three or four after the initial manipulation to take down any sealed QC's as they would obviously have been made in an emergency panic using older larvae - I have yet to find a sealed QC at this stage, I now just inspect on the seventh day, at that stage I very seldom find a completely sealed QC and usually very few QC's in total. That, to me indicates that there is no queenless 'panic' and a rush to make emergency QC's on anything they find rather, the bees are very selective in finding the ideal egg/larvae to promote up to a replacement queen.