Deliberately Contrary? (BBKA News)

[itma]

This month the 'headline' article relates to Queen Rearing.
The front page states "in this issue of BBKA News we begin a series of articles that wil guide you through the process in a step-by-step manner."

In that article one finds:-

The use of mini mating nucs is very economical on bees as relatively few are needed for each small colony. The most commonly used, Apidea, or similar size hives, require only about a mug of bees. The queens mated in mini-hives are often superceded later in the same season.
Better queens are produced in the larger mating nucleus hives. ... {using full size frames} ...The queens, mated from these larger nucleus hives, can take a little longer to mate and longer to start laying, but invariably such queens will turn out to be much better mated and longer lived.

The emphasis is mine.


I wonder if anyone else finds this a strange and unsupported opinion.
And also whether anyone else thinks that the BBKA News editorial policy seems of late to be to give a platform to those with colourful opinions, rather than clearly distinguishing between fact and ... opinion.

 

[blackcavebees]

Agree with you itma.

Half a story imho, if he is getting queens superceded from mating nucs he is taking them out too soon. Australian research from Rhodes and Denny (looking for link) talks about leaving them in for 35 days I think it was.

 

[oliver90owner]

a platform to those with colourful opinions, rather than clearly distinguishing between fact and ... opinion.

There are some on this forum,as well, that try to stretch facts. Would they like another comic?

 

[drstitson]

I wonder what Hivemaker will have to say about that given that he has a rather large collection of homemade wooden mini mating boxes.

OR the danish buckfast lot for that matter with their mini travel boxes used to send virgins to isolated mating stations.


Perhaps for the average beekeeper (you know the one - one hive; half brain) reducing the manipulations of HM is best approach - less chance of damage.
or the inexperienced may not get the right number or mix of bees into the magic cupful, leading to a poorly maintained virgin? much easier to shake old flyers off a full sized frame and then add the frame to a nuc, covered in young bees, with brood ready to emerge over next few weeks, rather than HM rattling around in an empty box with a group of inappropriate decrepit bees.

so for the average backyard (OH;HB) beekeeper it may be true. although invariably is too strong a word.

 

[Chris B]

I would point to Ged Marshall who has 500+ Apideas and sells the queens, which are good for at least 2 seasons on the whole.

 

[mbc]

It looks to me as if this has been lifted from a recent thread on the Scottish bee keeping forum.
FWIW my take on the comments;
"The queens mated in mini-hives are often superceded later in the same season. "
True.

"Better queens are produced in the larger mating nucleus hives."
On average, yes.

"The queens, mated from these larger nucleus hives, can take a little longer to mate and longer to start laying" true, "but invariably such queens will turn out to be much better mated and longer lived."
Untrue. I think someone needs to look up "invariably" before publishing nonsense.

 

[DanBee]

I wonder if anyone else finds this a strange and unsupported opinion.
And also whether anyone else thinks that the BBKA News editorial policy seems of late to be to give a platform to those with colourful opinions, rather than clearly distinguishing between fact and ... opinion.

Yes, very much so. I would greatly challenge the assertion regarding quality of queens and mini mating nucs. The Devon research group (DARG) published work in the early 1980's about queen quality from mini and micro queen raising nucs - they found no adverse effects provided queen numbers raised were in proportion to the colony population.

Also, it's hard to know what the objection is; often it is that small colonies cannot sufficiently feed developing queens (see above). However, most mating nuc users transfer sealed, emergent cells into the mating nucs - they are not raised there. This takes place in strong starter/finisher colonies managed for the purpose! Beyond that, let's see some comparative figures for this supposed failure to mate based upon size of box that the queen lives in at the time

There appears to be no technical assessment of articles before they are accepted into this magazine. I write a fair bit for BBKA News and this is one of my great frustrations with it; it appears an odd policy to adopt since the BBKA does have a Technical Committee...

In particular there has been a couple of contradictory articles relating to acetic acid fumigation of late. The one my father wrote for the October issue was intended to fill in the blanks on a topic that many General Husbandry candidates answer poorly; the 'response' article in January's issue was hysterical, incorrect, and confusing - oh, and it read like a personal attack in parts. Net result: GH candidates will most likely still be unsure what to say about acetic fumigation if asked

Apparently no correction to the January article will be published (despite, as you may expect, my father's desire to tackle the hysteria, factual errors, and confusion). Doug Brown, BBKA Chairman, was quoted as saying that the January article "will not be reviewed since it was written by a past BBKA Chairman/President, and therefore should not be challenged"...

 

[drstitson]

"This takes place in strong starter/finisher colonies managed for the purpose!"

NOT what most OH-HB UK hobbyists will be using.

The convenience of mini-nuc vs proper nuc suggests raising too many queens per colony.

For those producing on commercial scale they MUST use small boxes.

But for hobbyists? might suggest use of cells which would otherwise be discarded.

""will not be reviewed since it was written by a past BBKA Chairman/President, and therefore should not be challenged"... "

that sort of statement demands a motion for a vote of no confidence at next AGM IMHO. we need representatives open to evidence. not deferent to the sage words of past leaders.

 

[mbc]

"will not be reviewed since it was written by a past BBKA Chairman/President, and therefore should not be challenged"...

this attitude diminishes the value of the publication below worth reading IMO.
I find reading live discussions on the interweb far more diverting and educational than any of the periodicals available anyway.

 

[user 6228]

Not surprising there are variable results in mini-nucs as the bees are more thermally stressed than in a full hive (of what ever construction). People are putting in the wrong level of insulation for the changed surface area/volume ratio This ratio is the heat loss/potential heat generation ratio.

 

[MuswellMetro]

In particular there has been a couple of contradictory articles "[/B][/I]...

Thanks Dan Bee, really helpful to know the inside discussions, it is causing us in our BKA a lot of angst as new beekeeper members of only a few years experience read one article then the contradictory one in the next issue~~~~and my inbox fills up with queries and Help what to I do requests!!

it would be very helpfull to know when a BBKA news article is approve for General Husbandry or NDB etc and when the article is an alternative for discussion

 

[DanBee]

Thanks Dan Bee, really helpful to know the inside discussions, it is causing us in our BKA a lot of angst as new beekeeper members of only a few years experience read one article then the contradictory one in the next issue~~~~and my inbox fills up with queries and Help what to I do requests!!

it would be very helpfull to know when a BBKA news article is approve for General Husbandry or NDB etc and when the article is an alternative for discussion

Take it as read that the January article is so full of holes that it should be discarded, rely on the October article by Ken Basterfield as being correct. He has been writing a series of 'how to' articles of relevance to General Husbandry candidates, as you say they could usefully have been flagged up explicitly as that.

It's a very sad state of affairs when beekeepers who want to learn are confused by the BBKA's publication due to what can only be termed 'ego issues'

 

[Teemore]

The terms "Confused Beekeepers" and "Associations" seem invariably to be linked....

I value receiving the BBKA news each month (and BeeCraft). Thankfully I find it relatively easy to identify the authors and guidance that should be borne in mind. Not so easy for new and aspiring beekeepers so please BBKA, be a wee bit more discerning in flagging up General Husbandry/NDB articles.

 

[alanf]

There appears to be no technical assessment of articles before they are accepted into this magazine. I write a fair bit for BBKA News and this is one of my great frustrations with it; it appears an odd policy to adopt since the BBKA does have a Technical Committee...

I do feel some sympathy for the editor. If the articles with unsubstantiated opinions were removed. there wouldn't be a lot left. Agree entirely that "opinion" should be clearly flagged as such.

In particular there has been a couple of contradictory articles relating to acetic acid fumigation of late...

That was discussed locally, but this isn't the only journal with uncertain policy. I recall a Beecraft toward the end of last year about apiaries in urban areas. Co-authored by an "academic" but with arithmetic errors that would be spotted in year 6. If it made the paper in an academic journal, it would be instantly "withdrawn" with a black mark.

Apparently no correction to the January article will be published (despite, as you may expect, my father's desire to tackle the hysteria, factual errors, and confusion). Doug Brown, BBKA Chairman, was quoted as saying that the January article "will not be reviewed since it was written by a past BBKA Chairman/President, and therefore should not be challenged"...

Is this some sort of priesthood? A serious point that should have consequences. There is no necessary relationship between chairing a committee and practical expertise or analysis. To use a sporting analogy, most Premier League managers were mediocre players at best. Demonstrably good at picking a team but not who you'd choose to take a penalty. When the cost of producing the newsletter in current format was challenged, the counter was that it's the principle method of communication to members. If it appears to be drifting towards a vanity project by the committee that argument is rather hollow.

 

[DanBee]

Is this some sort of priesthood? A serious point that should have consequences. There is no necessary relationship between chairing a committee and practical expertise or analysis. ... When the cost of producing the newsletter in current format was challenged, the counter was that it's the principle method of communication to members. If it appears to be drifting towards a vanity project by the committee that argument is rather hollow.

Agree entirely, Alan. It also does not dispel the grumblings that there appears to be a small inner clique even within the Trustees - those who make decisions vs. those who are afterwards asked to rubber-stamp said decisions.

I could start on the website at this point...

 

[madasafish]

Agree entirely, Alan. It also does not dispel the grumblings that there appears to be a small inner clique even within the Trustees - those who make decisions vs. those who are afterwards asked to rubber-stamp said decisions.

I could start on the website at this point...

The website requires a decent burial...

 

[Margaret Elisabeth]

I wonder what Hivemaker will have to say about that given that he has a rather large collection of homemade wooden mini mating boxes.

OR the danish buckfast lot for that matter with their mini travel boxes used to send virgins to isolated mating stations.


Perhaps for the average beekeeper (you know the one - one hive; half brain) reducing the manipulations of HM is best approach - less chance of damage.
or the inexperienced may not get the right number or mix of bees into the magic cupful, leading to a poorly maintained virgin? much easier to shake old flyers off a full sized frame and then add the frame to a nuc, covered in young bees, with brood ready to emerge over next few weeks, rather than HM rattling around in an empty box with a group of inappropriate decrepit bees.



so for the average backyard (OH;HB) beekeeper it may be true. although invariably is too strong a word.

I am a relatively inexperienced beekeeper by most standards and I think probably quite average. Being referred to as one hive; half brain is making me mad enough to want to sting.
If I were a new beekeeper and new to this site is would make me opt for the BBKA site which would be a pity as this site has much to offer in the way of advice and discussion if the insults are kept in check and in your mind instead of in print.

 

[itma]

I am a relatively inexperienced beekeeper by most standards and I think probably quite average. Being referred to as one hive; half brain is making me mad enough to want to sting.
If I were a new beekeeper and new to this site...

The good Doctor was merely ironically quoting our (now much more occasional) 'Baltic' corespondent who was frequently dismissive in those exact terms.

During your own recent absence, some other members were forced to take one or more leaves of absence. Such terms, meant seriously, are now hopefully in the past.

I am sure DrS meant no disrespect, and unfortunately, the joke would indeed be lost on those who missed the fun. New or returning.

 

[drstitson]

as per itma.

apologies margaret - was just using what i felt was a forum meme. no offence intended.

BUT

the subject of the thread does indeed highlight the major flaws in the UK approach to beekeeping. how can a backyard single hive whole brain hobbyist expect to do things right when even the BBKA is promoting "advice" based on status not evidence.

 

[madasafish]

as per itma.

apologies margaret - was just using what i felt was a forum meme. no offence intended.

BUT

the subject of the thread does indeed highlight the major flaws in the UK approach to beekeeping. how can a backyard single hive whole brain hobbyist expect to do things right when even the BBKA is promoting "advice" based on status not evidence.

The BBKA aim to become like a certain religious order whose head can do no wrong....We'll all have to take vows of chastity soon... and wear wimples or have tonsures