Dealing with excess space in a hive

[Erichalfbee]

With regard to warmth - I was curious to know what temperature the bees were able to maintain in the hive. I know that there have been at least some discussions on this forum about temperature monitoring equipment in hives. I use clear acrylic crown boards which make it so easy for me to observe the bees without exposing them to inclement weather, and I decided to lay a small wall thermometer (glass-tube alcohol type) on the crown board which is covered with a thick slab of insulation foam. This has enabled me to have increased confidence over the well being of a colony which started as a split last season.

The method I use is got put my hand on the crown board

 

[understanding_bees]

The method I use is got put my hand on the crown board

I understand your comment, but I think that a thermometer is a bit more sensitive than my hand, in determining the difference between warm, fairly warm, and not warm enough.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I meant I can tell whether the colony is warm with my hand. I can't of course read the temperature as you say

 

[Jules59]

I've been meaning to ask this for some time.
What is the rationale/evidence for reducing the number of frames in the winter and packing with insulation? Bees are unable to do this in their natural environment. Why not just leave the lateral frames where they are?
I thought bees were a bit like Antarctic penguins and cluster together to maintain a temperature within the cluster and over frames they have in use. They don't try to heat the whole hive, like we do in our houses with central heating, as far as I'm aware.
The heat we feel at the top of the hive is convected heat from rising warm air - putting insulation at the sides would not have much effect on that, I would have thought.
I can understand that adding insulation above the crown board (CB) would be beneficial as warm air rises and the CB offers little insulation compared to the sides of the brood boxes.

 

[Worker bee]

If you have a few strong hives you can get those to draw your frames in a few days. Even at this time of year if you feed them and make sure you spin out anything they store. That way the queen has drawn frames as soon as brood is emerging. Just put a frame in the middle when bees are able to cover it. I have several hives on less than six frames of bees at the moment. I expect them to have eleven by november

 

[Erichalfbee]

I've been meaning to ask this for some time.
What is the rationale/evidence for reducing the number of frames in the winter and packing with insulation? Bees are unable to do this in their natural environment. Why not just leave the lateral frames where they are?
I thought bees were a bit like Antarctic penguins and cluster together to maintain a temperature within the cluster and over frames they have in use. They don't try to heat the whole hive, like we do in our houses with central heating, as far as I'm aware.
The heat we feel at the top of the hive is convected heat from rising warm air - putting insulation at the sides would not have much effect on that, I would have thought.
I can understand that adding insulation above the crown board (CB) would be beneficial as warm air rises and the CB offers little insulation compared to the sides of the brood boxes.

You don’t reduce the number of frames. The bees fill them with food.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You don’t reduce the number of frames. The bees fill them with food.

But some do fiddle around with brood boxes, stacking a single BB into two deeps then packing the space with PIR.
Pretty pointless operation in my view.

 

[Jules59]

But some do fiddle around with brood boxes, stacking a single BB into two deeps then packing the space with PIR.
Pretty pointless operation in my view.

I agree, but then why are people doing this ...

I'm running double brood this year and been advised to remove outer frames and pack with insulation. I dont understand the rationale for this.

 

[Worker bee]

I agree, but then why are people doing this ...
View attachment 27942
I'm running double brood this year and been advised to remove outer frames and pack with insulation. I dont understand the rationale for this.

Much better to insulate the whole outside of the hive if your going to spend the money on it. It does help and they build up faster. I've seen people say they see no difference. Must have different bees to me because mine build up much faster, forage in cooler temperatures and build comb faster. I've got splits in poly nucs need transferring to hives and splits took at the same time in wood still on 7 frames

 

[Swarm]

I agree, but then why are people doing this ...
View attachment 27942
I'm running double brood this year and been advised to remove outer frames and pack with insulation. I dont understand the rationale for this.

I run my colonies in double brood boxes like my photo above, nine frames per box because they don't need twenty two but they do need more than eleven.
Do what suits you and your bees.

 

[Worker bee]

I run my colonies in double brood boxes like my photo above, nine frames per box because they don't need twenty two but they do need more than eleven.
Do what suits you and your bees.

Your going to get some insulation using that method but you have two cold walls. If you insulate the whole outside walls and inside the roof you have much more stable environment. Not saying either way is wrong or right but one will provide much better insulation. Maybe insulation is the wrong term. Temperature is much less verable its not protecting from cold but swings in temperature with an open floor

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I agree, but then why are people doing this ...
View attachment 27942
I'm running double brood this year and been advised to remove outer frames and pack with insulation. I dont understand the rationale for this.

No Idea - the double broods I have running this year are filling all 22 frames with brood.

 

[Worker bee]

I run my colonies in double brood boxes like my photo above, nine frames per box because they don't need twenty two but they do need more than eleven.
Do what suits you and your bees.

Your going to get some insulation using that method but you have two cold walls. If you insulate the whole outside walls and inside the roof you have much more stable environment. Not saying either way is wrong or right but one will provide much better insulation. Maybe insulation is the wrong term. Temperature is much less verable

No Idea - the double broods I have running this year are filling all 22 frames with brood.

It's basically a cooker in spring and summer but does nothing in winter

 

[Worker bee]

It would act as a cooker because you have two uninsulated walls soaking the sun's heat and added insulation. On top and sides. But when it matters makes no difference

 

[Swarm]

I've been meaning to ask this for some time.
What is the rationale/evidence for reducing the number of frames in the winter and packing with insulation? Bees are unable to do this in their natural environment. Why not just leave the lateral frames where they are?
I thought bees were a bit like Antarctic penguins and cluster together to maintain a temperature within the cluster and over frames they have in use. They don't try to heat the whole hive, like we do in our houses with central heating, as far as I'm aware.
The heat we feel at the top of the hive is convected heat from rising warm air - putting insulation at the sides would not have much effect on that, I would have thought.
I can understand that adding insulation above the crown board (CB) would be beneficial as warm air rises and the CB offers little insulation compared to the sides of the brood boxes.

I don't reduce the size for winter and I'm not trying to get extra insulation, just giving my bees the optimum nest size for their requirements. Two inch or one inch blocks of wood would do the same but they would be heavier and harder to come by.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I agree, but then why are people doing this ...
View attachment 27942
I'm running double brood this year and been advised to remove outer frames and pack with insulation. I dont understand the rationale for this.

I would remove outer frames only if they were undrawn. Not likely if they are on double brood is it

 

[Jules59]

I would remove outer frames only if they were undrawn. Not likely if they are on double brood is it

indeed no, they're all fully drawn. I think i'll not take out any frames.