Cross of AMM drones with Ligustica Queens?

[birdsandbees]

Hi all,

just a thought, I have had a search on the forum but didn't see anything specific.

I was wondering whether anyone had experience of a cross between Ligustica and Mellifera?

I have acquired a Ligustica queen and was wondering what her daughters would be like if they were inseminated with Mellifera Drones?

I recall a mantra about yellow over black is okay but black over yellow isn't or something like that?

It might not happen but as you do I was just thinking about potential things to try out next year?

 

[B+.]

Hi all,

just a thought, I have had a search on the forum but didn't see anything specific.

I was wondering whether anyone had experience of a cross between Ligustica and Mellifera?

I have acquired a Ligustica queen and was wondering what her daughters would be like if they were inseminated with Mellifera Drones?

I recall a mantra about yellow over black is okay but black over yellow isn't or something like that?

It might not happen but as you do I was just thinking about potential things to try out next year?

IMHO there are just too many variables to give a proper answer. I don't think it is as simple as the racial mix you are making out, but, how good the Aml queen you have is, then, how good the Amm drones are you inseminate them from.
i.e. it is a sliding scale within each race before you even consider the between race issues

 

[birdsandbees]

IMHO there are just too many variables to give a proper answer. I don't think it is as simple as the racial mix you are making out, but, how good the Aml queen you have is, then, how good the Amm drones are you inseminate them from.
i.e. it is a sliding scale within each race before you even consider the between race issues

I get that, I have no idea what shes like yet, she may be carp and get binned, IF she was good, calm and productive in theory then I could try her daughters with Drones from equally similar AMM colonies.
I just had this thing going around in my head that for some reason a cross between the two races generally goes bad if done a certain way.
logically, as you say it's more about the parent stock and their characteristics than the race issue.

wish I could remember where I had read that Mantra but it's probably garbage anyway.

thanks for the reply

 

[Finman]

.
I had those 25 years, in all variations of mongrels. Italian queen is a good layer and hybrid hives will be big.

Hive will be as angry as black bees use to be. Unpleasant to handle.

Are they productive ? Not better than calm Italians. My yields have become better after black bee decades. Varroa killed all black bees here.

I cannot see any advantage in Italian & black bee hybrids. They had disease problems too. But hybrids happen when they live nearby. I believe that black drones were quicker to make love, because it happened too often with black drones.

 

[For want of a better word]

Hi all,

just a thought, I have had a search on the forum but didn't see anything specific.

I was wondering whether anyone had experience of a cross between Ligustica and Mellifera?

I have acquired a Ligustica queen and was wondering what her daughters would be like if they were inseminated with Mellifera Drones?

I recall a mantra about yellow over black is okay but black over yellow isn't or something like that?

It might not happen but as you do I was just thinking about potential things to try out next year?

You will get a hybrid.

 

[Finman]

You will get a hybrid.

Or pure local mongrel
.

 

[birdsandbees]

Well, Finny says as aggressive as the Black father, well, if the Black Fathers hive is calm and easy to work?

And yes they will be Mongrel, as Mongrel as any other deliberate cross breed between two closely related animals I guess, so for example a Cockerpoo which results in a known outcome.
Should make it clearer that I am referring to I.I being implemented not open mating.

 

[Finman]

Well, Finny says as aggressive as the Black father, well, if the Black Fathers hive is calm and easy to work?

And yes they will be Mongrel, as Mongrel as any other deliberate cross breed between two closely related animals I guess, so for example a Cockerpoo which results in a known outcome.
Should make it clearer that I am referring to I.I being implemented not open mating.

Calm Black . If, shout Bingo!
.
Count how many drones a virgin uses. All calm.

 

[Ian123]

whats the pedigree/purity of your queen because thats more likely to effect the results first time around

 

[Finman]

whats the pedigree/purity of your queen because thats more likely to effect the results first time around

You can think theories when Air Space is controlled by local mongrels.
You may hope that you have pure calm black bees around you. Are they black or grey or brown?

Your own Italian Queen's purity? IT does not help. Italian breeds are so many.

You may whip this question as long as you like, but you will see it later.

"Theoretical hoping"

And note, the Queen mates with over 10 individual drones. From where comes angry hives, if the parent queen is calm, when you craft the larvae.
.

 

[SDM]

Angry hives from first generation crosses of calm pure bred queens. Not seen that.

 

[Finman]

What is pure AMM or Italian?

When over 90% out of British beekeepers are 2-hive owners, how many of them have pure races and pedigrees on the wall? How many of them even buy "good" queens every year instead of swarming queens.

 

[Finman]

Angry hives from first generation crosses of calm pure bred queens. Not seen that.

Tame is am anomaly or gene error in bees genome. IT has been made by human selection. If the gene error heals in crossing, natural instincts return to the bees.

Why calm features are so strong that they go over defensive instinct.

But keep spare queens, and replace the angry Queens when such appears.

 

[Finman]

Angry hives from first generation crosses of calm pure bred queens. Not seen that.

I have seen enough.
.