Cream of Tartar

[For want of a better word]

Any one heard tell of a fondant recipe using Cream of Tarta ?

 

[VEG]

If you do a google search there are loads of pages on it. It seems it used to be used but is not recommended any more

 

[victor meldrew]

VM

 

[Poly Hive]

Out of date.

PH

 

[alanf]

Cream of tartar is potassium bitartrate. It's an acid salt that is used to lower the pH of the mix. Heating sucrose (table sugar) in acid medium splits it to glucose and fructose (acid hydrolysis). The mix of sugars can make a fondant with a lower water content than sucrose alone.

BUT

Fructose + heat + acid produces the breakdown product HMF - hydroxy methyl furfural, which is toxic to bees (at far lower levels than humans can tolerate). So best avoided and you only see it in older recipes. Better to add the glucose and/or fructose separately.

 

[itma]

... Better to add the glucose and/or fructose separately.

And for hobby quantities, look for those in 'health food' shops.
Keep the fructose in a tightly-closed jar, otherwise it will turn itself into syrup!

 

[For want of a better word]

Thanks folks..

another one for the Little book of Beekeepering Horrors !

 

[Poly Hive]

We should really have a sticky for them but agreeing on them would be err... interesting to say the least....lol

PH

 

[victor meldrew]

I used cream of tartar for years , I never noticed any problems with the bees!
Not arguing the merits thereof but adverse effects were not noticeable to the beekeeping fraternity . These recipes were used universally for decades with no apparent problems !
VM

 

[alanf]

I used cream of tartar for years , I never noticed any problems with the bees!
Not arguing the merits thereof but adverse effects were not noticeable to the beekeeping fraternity . These recipes were used universally for decades with no apparent problems !
VM

Yes, most of the time you could get away with it. Thing is, without either being able to monitor the conditions (accurately plotting the temperatures for instance) or testing the HMF levels in the final product you will never know. Might be within safe limits. Or it might not. Are you going to risk that with your bees?

Commercially preparing fondants you have the facilities to monitor accurately, in the kitchen you don't. If you use commercially prepared ingredients you should be within safe limits.

 

[Beezer]

This any help from our very own - Rosti:
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/video.php?do=search

 

[victor meldrew]

Yes, most of the time you could get away with it. Thing is, without either being able to monitor the conditions (accurately plotting the temperatures for instance) or testing the HMF levels in the final product you will never know. Might be within safe limits. Or it might not. Are you going to risk that with your bees?

Commercially preparing fondants you have the facilities to monitor accurately, in the kitchen you don't. If you use commercially prepared ingredients you should be within safe limits.

Get away with it sounds as though one was indulging in an illegal activity
I know what you mean .
The main danger from HMF is in fact to the bees themselves . The max quoted for honey is there to be used as a marker ,pointing to the age of the product and to possible over heating, both of which promote an increase in HMF .
HMF levels in fruit preserves (jams ) can be as high as 300 ppm !! with no danger to consumers !
I still make my own fondant (I like to know what's in it ) . I do not however add cream of tartar , not because I think it a problem but because It is now deemed to be bad practice .
VM
PS I'm not at all sure that the hmf levels in commercially produced fondant are anywhere near as low as the Max for honey (Why should it be?)

 

[alanf]

PS I'm not at all sure that the hmf levels in commercially produced fondant are anywhere near as low as the Max for honey (Why should it be?)

Not always easy to establish the actual processing (commercial considerations). An alternative to acid hydrolysis is using enzymes. The invertase enzyme is produced commercially and was used for soft centre sweets. Syrup and fondant sold as bee food is quoted in some places as being produced from enzyme converted sugars, the makers only claim: "ambrosia bee food syrup is a balanced liquid complete food with a low HMF content ".

Bakers fondant, where the ingredients are listed, is generally just sugar, glucose and water. Not specifically made for bees but it is only simple cheap ingredients for bakery use. No fructose added or produced by hydrolysis so the HMF level should be low.