Castellated frames or hoffman style

[pargyle]

There you go ...ask 10 beekeepers the same question and you get eleven answers - all of them right for the individuals who answered them ..

The only correct answer is the one that is right for you ... try everything and see what you prefer. Then stick with it ... the worst thing in beekeeping is a mixture of different kit in the same apiary.

 

[Newbeeneil]

There you go ...ask 10 beekeepers the same question and you get eleven answers - all of them right for the individuals who answered them ..

The only correct answer is the one that is right for you ... try everything and see what you prefer. Then stick with it ... the worst thing in beekeeping is a mixture of different kit in the same apiary.

Well said Philip
As you know I’m a castellations everywhere sort of guy and would agree that the OP should try both before deciding. I use both as several of my clients have Hoffmans but still prefer the castellations.

 

[sean-a]

There you go ...ask 10 beekeepers the same question and you get eleven answers - all of them right for the individuals who answered them ..

The only correct answer is the one that is right for you ... try everything and see what you prefer. Then stick with it ... the worst thing in beekeeping is a mixture of different kit in the same apiary.

I was going to make exactly the same observation
Just to demonstrate that no two beekeepers agree

 

[plain_hunt]

Plastic spacers - vile things, fortunately they are running out of fashion.

Not in my apiary! But only in the supers. Hoffmans in the brood box.

 

[Superlativesoul]

Thank you to everyone for their replies to my question ,the information and knowledge on this forum will be invaluable to myself and others on our beekeeping journey .Hoping everyone has a good honey season .
John

 

[RichardBeeW]

Haha, I do love this forum! Just ask a ‘simple’ question to get the whole range of passionate answers from a whole range of experienced beekeepers! I think one of the most useful things I’ve learned here (along with really precise pointers - I’m thinking ’under floor entrances’, thank you JBM, love them, and deep roofs made out of insulation sheets, was that you Dani?) is that most beekeepers find something that works really well for them (though always keeping an eye out for ‘better’) and, in the end it’s more about skills than kit - though kit counts when it suits you. Personally I actually like the plastic slip-over end spacers but Hoffmanns are good (I just like the wider spacing - 38mm) and, for as long as I’m physically able I’m sticking with brood boxes as supers so all is interchangeable. I always take a correx nuc to offload some frames when doing inspections that require lifting. Love the range of views here though, really do.

 

[thorn]

As our rose hive has hoffmans, after reading this thread my bee buddy and I will try using a dummy board and see how it goes.

 

[Swarm]

I rarely use dummy boards, I prefer a bit of wiggle room at each end. I do use hoffman frames in brood boxes but I've had a batch of 'slim hoffman' side bars in the past, didn't notice until I could fit twelve frames plus dummy board and still a bit of space.
I hate plastic spacers but at least they are standard and I suppose another benefit would be the saving made when buying cheaper DN 1's

 

[North End Bees]

NEVER castellations...anywhere. Being able to slide the frames along is a massive time advantage in all parts of the hive..with castellations you have to lift every frame individually.

Everyone to their own but to me castellations are a museum piece and half the speed you can work a hive in...also prefer one size boxes too. So all the same.

Do you have 11 frames in your supers?
Or 9-10 spaced by eye?

 

[Ely]

NEVER castellations...anywhere. Being able to slide the frames along is a massive time advantage in all parts of the hive..with castellations you have to lift every frame individually.

Everyone to their own but to me castellations are a museum piece and half the speed you can work a hive in...also prefer one size boxes too. So all the same.

Hi there. I'm just wondering how you space your honey frames. Do you use the space left by Hoffman frames or do you give them more space somehow? I've used both Hoffman and castellated frames in supers. The Hoffmans were easy to work with like you say but the frames on castellations produced lovely fat combs of honey that were easy to uncap due to being wider than the frame. I've some seen American beekeepers use a plastic frame spacing tool that they slide back and forth on the top of the frames until they are evenly spaced with a nice wide gap for the honey comb. That seems a handy tool and no castellations.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Do you have 11 frames in your supers?
Or 9-10 spaced by eye?

Hi there. I'm just wondering how you space your honey frames. Do you use the space left by Hoffman frames or do you give them more space somehow?

I doubt Murray's outfit has the time to fiddle around with spacing frames by eye, or any other gadget - the frames are Hoffman's for a reason - that's the spacings for all the frames, brood or supers

 

[Into the lions den]

There are so many conventions based on opinions...rather than actual experimentation.

For sure...done the tests years ago......

Bees do somewhat better with the same spacing all the way up. They also do better in an all deep set up.

Spacing the frames out and getting really fat combs was something we did many years ago...scrapped that probably 30 years back.

Now ALL our frames are self spacing, all boxes have rails or have the wood cut to the correct height for the bee space by sitting them direct onto the wooden shelf. All our hives are also simple 4 piece Langstroths or Smiths...so short lugs. Scrapped our National outfit around 20 years ago as it was slow to operate by comparison and the boxes were relatively expensive.

Whilst saying self spacing frames, same all the way up the hive, is our ideal, we are an outfit with over 70 years of history so our Smith and Langstroth units all have Manley frames in them which are NOT the same all the way up...and 10 in the super over 11 in the brood gives a nasty ventilation black spot in the centre so you get more hanging out in summer flows and a somewhat faster start to congestion triggered swarming (marginal compared to the effect of plastic excluders and erroneous bee space in home made kit however).

Self spacing makes manual spacing or castellations redundant......but I know plenty...even bee farmers...who still use SN1 or SS1 frames in their supers, with spacers or castellations. You pays your money and takes your choice. Diversity....its a British quality/curse. Certainly the individuality make for VERY expensive bee equipment.

Gets worse in the Langstroths.........again we bought a historic unit and they are 10 frame in the broods but 8 frame 44mm wide Manley in the medium honey supers......the bees are not really all that fond of that wider spacing and some day I might just burn the lot........the super frames that is, and replace with 10 frame Hoffman spacing

 

[North End Bees]

There are so many conventions based on opinions...rather than actual experimentation.

For sure...done the tests years ago......

Bees do somewhat better with the same spacing all the way up. They also do better in an all deep set up.

Spacing the frames out and getting really fat combs was something we did many years ago...scrapped that probably 30 years back.

Now ALL our frames are self spacing, all boxes have rails or have the wood cut to the correct height for the bee space by sitting them direct onto the wooden shelf. All our hives are also simple 4 piece Langstroths or Smiths...so short lugs. Scrapped our National outfit around 20 years ago as it was slow to operate by comparison and the boxes were relatively expensive.

Whilst saying self spacing frames, same all the way up the hive, is our ideal, we are an outfit with over 70 years of history so our Smith and Langstroth units all have Manley frames in them which are NOT the same all the way up...and 10 in the super over 11 in the brood gives a nasty ventilation black spot in the centre so you get more hanging out in summer flows and a somewhat faster start to congestion triggered swarming (marginal compared to the effect of plastic excluders and erroneous bee space in home made kit however).

Self spacing makes manual spacing or castellations redundant......but I know plenty...even bee farmers...who still use SN1 or SS1 frames in their supers, with spacers or castellations. You pays your money and takes your choice. Diversity....its a British quality/curse. Certainly the individuality make for VERY expensive bee equipment.

Gets worse in the Langstroths.........again we bought a historic unit and they are 10 frame in the broods but 8 frame 44mm wide Manley in the medium honey supers......the bees are not really all that fond of that wider spacing and some day I might just burn the lot........the super frames that is, and replace with 10 frame Hoffman spacing

Thanks Murray for taking the time out to write such a comprehensive answer.

I've experimented with different configurations of frames (but in a vastly more limited capacity than you!)

I'd really like to use same size boxes but I've found that double brood plus 1 deep super is really my limit. Rubbish arms can't lift deep boxes off any higher!

I take the point about the ventilation with supers of 9 frames over BB of 11.
9 does make for easier uncapping but obviously at a cost.

 

[Ely]

There are so many conventions based on opinions...rather than actual experimentation.

For sure...done the tests years ago......

Bees do somewhat better with the same spacing all the way up. They also do better in an all deep set up.

Spacing the frames out and getting really fat combs was something we did many years ago...scrapped that probably 30 years back.

Now ALL our frames are self spacing, all boxes have rails or have the wood cut to the correct height for the bee space by sitting them direct onto the wooden shelf. All our hives are also simple 4 piece Langstroths or Smiths...so short lugs. Scrapped our National outfit around 20 years ago as it was slow to operate by comparison and the boxes were relatively expensive.

Whilst saying self spacing frames, same all the way up the hive, is our ideal, we are an outfit with over 70 years of history so our Smith and Langstroth units all have Manley frames in them which are NOT the same all the way up...and 10 in the super over 11 in the brood gives a nasty ventilation black spot in the centre so you get more hanging out in summer flows and a somewhat faster start to congestion triggered swarming (marginal compared to the effect of plastic excluders and erroneous bee space in home made kit however).

Self spacing makes manual spacing or castellations redundant......but I know plenty...even bee farmers...who still use SN1 or SS1 frames in their supers, with spacers or castellations. You pays your money and takes your choice. Diversity....its a British quality/curse. Certainly the individuality make for VERY expensive bee equipment.

Gets worse in the Langstroths.........again we bought a historic unit and they are 10 frame in the broods but 8 frame 44mm wide Manley in the medium honey supers......the bees are not really all that fond of that wider spacing and some day I might just burn the lot........the super frames that is, and replace with 10 frame Hoffman spacing

Great information. Thanks for sharing. I feel better about using all deeps, all be it, nationals, with that info.