Carniolan X

[Beefriendly]

Can I ask what your views are on Carniolan X queens. I'm thinking of getting a couple and raising a few queens from them later in the season. These will be open mated.

Ian, if these are from where I think they might be (Buckfast x Carniolan queens) in their second year...go for them. Hellish good queens with extraordinary honey gathering prowess.
I've heard mixed reports of their downstream heritage. I think it depends how violent your local mongrels are.

 

[B+.]

Don't take this the wrong way B+ but you really are a "priock teaser". You have the "best bees", don't need to treat for varroa, they don't swarm, produce 200kg honey per hive per year...and not available to anyone else (apart from a select few).
Jealous, Moi

Thank goodness for decent honest commercial do-it-for profit Buckfast breeders.

Some people don't like to hear good news? I expressed a personal opinion that they were the best bees I'd ever had and offered evidence of the groups progress (http://www.beebreed.nl/teeltwaarde.html). What's wrong with that?

What's the point in having good stock if they can't be selected for propagation? BeeBreed-NL decided that only untreated colonies would be considered. I tend to agree with that. If you're selecting for varroa tolerance, you're fooling yourself if you treat them.

 

[TooBee...]

...I had 1 colony that swarmed this year (usually none do)...I don't do anything special to avoid swarming beyond the obvious that any beekeeper would do (give them space when they need it).

I think I might be misunderstanding what you said; you say you "don't do anything special to avoid swarming" but I assume you mean you give them plenty of room and do an artificial split when (not if) you see the first queen cell?

It's my understanding from what I have read, and especially from what I have been told here in Ireland and seen from my first years experience - that each and every one of a beeks hives WILL make an attempt to swarm, only very small or sick colonies will not (the majority of the bees are 90%+ AMM, local stock if you know what I mean...), once a beek sees a Queen cell, do an artificial split and that should be it, if they attempt it again they are defined as swarmy and depending on who you talk to the general consensus is that you should re-queen (kill the queen and re-queen from another hive). My own nuc tried to swarm when they were filling up a brood box, they still had a lot of room.

Having re-read the above, I've only just remembered you use queens which are reared in spring, with each hive being re-queened each year, which I have read often leads to no swarming for that year only (my nuc had last years queen).

 

[Beefriendly]

from what I have been told here in Ireland and seen from my first years experience - that each and every one of a beeks hives WILL make an attempt to swarm, only very small or sick colonies will not

That is exactly what happens when you use local bees.
To avoid it, buy some decent queens.

 

[Eyeman]

That is exactly what happens when you use local bees.
To avoid it, buy some decent queens.

My bees are local and 2 out of 23 threw up QC's this year.
Work with your local stock. Your colleagues have been doing for so for years.
Take a look at Wally Shaws an Apiary guide to swarm control- everything you need to know.
http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Swarm-Control-Wally-Shaw.pdf

 

[SDM]

My bees are local and 2 out of 23 threw up QC's this year.
Work with your local stock. Your colleagues have been doing for so for years.
Take a look at Wally Shaws an Apiary guide to swarm control- everything you need to know.
http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Swarm-Control-Wally-Shaw.pdf

Very much a freak year ref swarming. Not a single day were bees confined to their hives. Everyone i know experienced lower than usual levels.

 

[B+.]

I think I might be misunderstanding what you said; you say you "don't do anything special to avoid swarming" but I assume you mean you give them plenty of room and do an artificial split when (not if) you see the first queen cell?

It's my understanding from what I have read, and especially from what I have been told here in Ireland and seen from my first years experience - that each and every one of a beeks hives WILL make an attempt to swarm, only very small or sick colonies will not (the majority of the bees are 90%+ AMM, local stock if you know what I mean...), once a beek sees a Queen cell, do an artificial split and that should be it, if they attempt it again they are defined as swarmy and depending on who you talk to the general consensus is that you should re-queen (kill the queen and re-queen from another hive). My own nuc tried to swarm when they were filling up a brood box, they still had a lot of room.

Having re-read the above, I've only just remembered you use queens which are reared in spring, with each hive being re-queened each year, which I have read often leads to no swarming for that year only (my nuc had last years queen).

By the time I have queens available (or receive test queens from other breeders) it's usually late June/July, so that's when I start making up test colonies. The queen is allowed to establish her brood nest and overwinter. By the time Spring comes, any bees that formed the nuc will be long dead by that point and all of the workers will be hers. So, any behaviours expressed will be attributable to the queen.
As the colony expands, it is given a second brood box (they stay in at least doubles from that point on). Any colony that shows signs of preparing to swarm (queen cells) is marked down and won't be propagated further. However, I still want to evaluate other criteria so I'll destroy any cells I find and do this (https://youtu.be/Wm7RqXJD4_w?list=PLbr7jvL12x96CATXF3u59e_lvLETOD6Vq&t=1427). I only do this because the data contributes to the breeding value of related queens. The purpose isn't to make a permanent split. It's just to get them over the swarmy period so they can be recombined without affecting their performance.

 

[foghornleghorn]

Don't take this the wrong way B+ but you really are a "priock teaser". You have the "best bees", don't need to treat for varroa, they don't swarm, produce 200kg honey per hive per year...and not available to anyone else (apart from a select few).
Jealous, Moi

Thank goodness for decent honest commercial do-it-for profit Buckfast breeders.

You can get the island mated celle queens easy enough if you want them...

 

[Beefriendly]

You can get the island mated celle queens easy enough if you want them...

They are the only type of queens I buy.

 

[foghornleghorn]

They are the only type of queens I buy.

Celle line of carnica , you're always saying how they're not available...

 

[Finman]

.
There are many quality Carnicas in Europe, like in Germany and in Austria. Singer Carnica has been top quality 30 years. Best Singer queens cost £400.
.

 

[SDM]

Celle line of carnica , you're always saying how they're not available...

He buys Island mated , not Celle queens

 

[Beefriendly]

Celle line of carnica , you're always saying how they're not available...

Where did I state I bought Celle Line Carnica?

 

[Finman]

.
What is Celle queen?

 

[Lancs Lad]

Bee friendly post 49

 

[Beefriendly]

From Institute for Apiculture Celle.
https://www.state-office-for-consumer-protection-and-food-safety.niedersachsen.de/startseite/about_us/institutes_and_specialized_departments/institute-for-apiculture-celle-73748.html

 

[B+.]

.
What is Celle queen?

Amc from Institut für Bienenkunde Celle (http://www.laves.niedersachsen.de/w...te/institut-fuer-bienenkunde-celle-73995.html).

I have tested these for well over 10 years. They are generally good queens but, when I realised that I was the only person testing them for the whole range of traits (including varroa), I got a bit fed up. I cancelled my perpetual order last year so the 2017 batch is the last group I am testing for them. There are better queens available if you know where to look....but you probably have to be a breeder so BeeFriendly would take me to task if I mentioned them ;-)

 

[foghornleghorn]

Where did I state I bought Celle Line Carnica?

You were saying how b+'s carnica were unavailable to the public, I suggested trying the celle line as they're easily available but I think you prefer having something to whine about

 

[Finman]

Clear as water......

 

[B+.]

You were saying how b+'s carnica were unavailable to the public, I suggested trying the celle line as they're easily available but I think you prefer having something to whine about

I do sell a few queens but I am pretty busy with testing/breeding work so I don't usually have the time to do a lot. Several people on here have queens from my stock. I think that Beefriendly means they're not available in huge numbers. To which I've replied that I am primarily a breeder and not a mass-market queen raiser. My interest lies in improving the stock.