Careless stupidity! I introduced a virgin queen into a hive with a mated queen....what now?

[RichardK]

Last Sunday (28th Aug) I made a up a nuc for a newly emerged virgin queen. In my carelessness I put my mated queen into the nuc before 30 minutes later adding the virgin queen. Cutting a long story short, having a niggling doubt I checked the new colony today, saw eggs & larvae an my marked mated queen!

Has she likely killed the virgin queen, or could the virgin be lurking somewhere (5 frame reasonably populous Dadant nuc)? Should I get the mated queen out pronto?

All advice welcome. And yes, I know it was very stupid and careless!

 

[The Poot]

Last Sunday (28th Aug) I made a up a nuc for a newly emerged virgin queen. In my carelessness I put my mated queen into the nuc before 30 minutes later adding the virgin queen. Cutting a long story short, having a niggling doubt I checked the new colony today, saw eggs & larvae an my marked mated queen!

Has she likely killed the virgin queen, or could the virgin be lurking somewhere (5 frame reasonably populous Dadant nuc)? Should I get the mated queen out pronto?

All advice welcome. And yes, I know it was very stupid and careless!

I would imagine any fisticuffs would be over by now. It’s likely the workers polished off the virgin, if the marked queen is performing well.

 

[RichardK]

That's a relief to hear. And yes, performing very well.

 

[Hachi]

Don't beat yourself up you wont do it again!

 

[RichardK]

Don't beat yourself up you wont do it again!

I hope not! I was very pleased, if a little surprised that my mated queen came out on top. I felt the colony was very receptive to the new virgin queen hence did a direct release.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The virgin may still be there and they end up treating it more like a 'perfect' supersedure.

 

[RichardK]

The virgin may still be there and they end up treating it more like a 'perfect' supersedure.

That is a concern I have. So is the safest thing to remove the marked mated queen and see what happens?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That is a concern I have. So is the safest thing to remove the marked mated queen and see what happens?

if you don't know whether the virgin is still in there, you are going to end up with a queenless colony and eventually laying workers. Unless there is a particular reason to keep the older queen, I'd just leave them get on with it.

 

[BugsInABox]

I think perfect implies you’ll end up with both queens coexisting for a while. I’ve heard it happens, not sure what in this description hints to it. Isn’t it more likely the virgin is now an ex bee?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Isn’t it more likely the virgin is now an ex bee?

more likely, but not guaranteed - you're dealing with the introduction of a virgin, not a mated queen
OP said bees seemed happy enough with her when introduced.
If you'd read the post, plenty of pointers to it being a possibility
That's why I said leave them alone, the worse that can happen os the OP will find a new queen heading the colony in the spring.

 

[Swarm]

What was the original plan? It sounds like you were making up a nuc to take a newly emerged virgin? And put the queen in there by mistake?
What about the hive this nuc and queen came from? Was the intention to leave the old queen there? I don't see why you don't pick her up and put her back unless I'm totally confused which is quite possible as I've been extracting through the night and all day.

 

[RichardK]

What was the original plan? It sounds like you were making up a nuc to take a newly emerged virgin? And put the queen in there by mistake?
What about the hive this nuc and queen came from? Was the intention to leave the old queen there? I don't see why you don't pick her up and put her back unless I'm totally confused which is quite possible as I've been extracting through the night and all day.

In fairness I'm confused as to what to do. I had 4 emerged queens from a grafting bar I'd done and hence was creating some nucs. In the first nuc I took a stored frame from a large donor hive and then went through said hive looking for the marked queen. Couldn't find her, checked the stores frame I'd moved and there she was. I'm out early and back late these days, hence was working too quickly and the light was failing. Basically it would seem I didn't move the mated queen back to her hive & carried on making up the nuc, introducing the virgin queen 30 minutes later. I only realised yesterday what I'd done. The original hive has 15 or so QC's which I'm guessing could be as little as 2 days off emerging (queen removed 26th, say the bees used a 6 day old egg/larva, then Monday (tomorrow...) is emergence day.

What would you do?

Edit...
I should perhaps add that this evening (too late, dusk falling again...) I hastily reduced the number of QC's to 3. I was too nervous to re-introduce the mated queen in case the bees had used an older larvae & I already have a VQ running around. Still very interested in what you, or anyone else more experienced (that means pretty much everyone ) would have done though.

 

[Swarm]

I'd have returned her the moment I discovered her. You can do it now, they'll be thankful I reckon but just for safety's sake do a thorough shake all frames check and kill the emergency cells and put her back under a push in cage perhaps?
Or leave it as is and put it down to experience.

 

[RichardK]

Thanks for that - i'll take a look this evening if i can get there in time & also steal a QC for the colony i'll be talking my mated Queen back from!