Can't find the queen

[troyca]

When you do a shook swarm to replace drone laying queen,why do you have to shake the bees off the frames? If you have another box for them to go to,won't they just fly to it with out being shaken to the ground some distance away? wouldn't this reduce the trauma of it all?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Never heard of anyone doing a shook swarm to replace a drone laying queen....how does this work then?

 

[BKF Admin]

I think you are confusing a hive of laying workers against doing a shook swarm,two very different things.

 

[Mike a]

I have a strong colony to deal with this weekend for a newbie beek friend of mine who has asked for urgent help with either a drone laying queen or laying worker/s in it.

I had a quick look last weekend as the weather wasn't to good at the time so I couldn't determine which problem they have but the frames are a real mess with nothing but drone brood every where in the brood chamber even above the frames under the QE so I closed it up again. It going to be a steep learning curve for them but nothing beats jumping into bee keeping than a hive with a failing colony.

 

[oliver90owner]

I expect that to be a drone laying queen, if it is wall-to-wall drones.

Regards, RAB

 

[troyca]

Yeh sorry. If you are trying to get rid of the laying workers , don't you take the hive some distance away and shake the bees off the frames,hoping the non laying bees don't make it back to the hive? In which case if you have a new hive in the original site for them to find, why shake them off the frames?

 

[Roy S]

I cant figure out what on earth this is about???
Drone laying queen? requeen them!!
Drone laying workers? how many are in the colony? they can be more trouble than they're worth, but as mentioned I believe tipping the bees out a good distance from the hives can sometimes stop the drone laying workers from flying back, I've not tried this method myself though, never needed too.

 

[oliver90owner]

hoping the non laying bees don't make it back to the hive?

I think nearly 100% of the bees are usually non-laying. Not much less when laying workers are present. Alpha re foxtrot, I think.

Probably so you can put the same box back on the stand?

RAB

 

[Hivemaker.]

Adding frames of open brood from another colony will help put a stop to laying workers,what makes you think laying workers can't fly,they have wings as well.

 

[Bcrazy]

What a super concoction more I say more.

 

[beebreeder]

Have you a new queen coming or some method of obtaining a queen?

 

[troyca]

New queen finally arrived,she is in ,acccepted and the bees are a bit happier too! I will be glad when her little Carnolian babies are the new kids on the block as this lot have been nightmares-stinging,following and really no fun to be with. Thanks for the help all-I am sorted.

 

[Polyanwood]

That is brilliant if puzzling news. Assume you killed drone layer or at least made absolutely certain there was no queen in there before you introduced your new beauty?
Am still a bit confused about whether you think you had drone layer or laying workers.....

 

[Onge]

New queen finally arrived,she is in ,acccepted and the bees are a bit happier too! I will be glad when her little Carnolian babies are the new kids on the block as this lot have been nightmares-stinging,following and really no fun to be with. Thanks for the help all-I am sorted.

How did you introduce her?

Did you make a nuc then combine or stick her in here cage straight in the main hive?

If the latter did you remove the attendants?

I would like to know.

Thanks.

 

[Mike a]

I have a strong colony to deal with this weekend for a newbie beek friend of mine who has asked for urgent help with either a drone laying queen or laying worker/s in it..

Update

Inspected the frames to find one egg at the bottom of a cell so went queen hunting and found a small unmarked queen (should of been a green marked queen) put her in a queen clip and just to be safe removed the hive from its site some 40 ft away and set up a new mesh floor, brood box in its place.

old hive
Shook off the bees from every frame and decapped all the drone brood from each frame to find very low levels of varroa. Double checked each frame for any eggs/larvae if all clear it was put into the new brood box and the gap was filled with new frames and added a feeder. The next day it was noticeable the colony had become a little tatchy and defensive which is what I wanted so I did the patch method introduction from a QR hive.

Fingers crossed they will now raise a new queen.

The queen was given to a friend who wants to set up a drone mating colony...

 

[troyca]

How did you introduce her?

Did you make a nuc then combine or stick her in here cage straight in the main hive?

If the latter did you remove the attendants?

I would like to know.

Thanks.

Wasn't sure what was happening in the end so got local opinion. He suggested it was a failing queen as brood pattern sparce and drone "peppered" not in blocks. So I moved old box with failing queen[who I couldn't find]with what little brood there was to one side. This allowed the flying bees to return to the old site where a new box was placed with food and some drawn comb. My new queen awaited them in her cage between the frames with out her attendants. She is now happy as a clam and the bees have accepted her. I was working on the assumption that swarming bees have to cope without any extras like drawn comb or brood and am hoping things continue to go well.
Someone will now tell me it is doomed but we shall see...

 

[RoofTops]

Troyca, A colony of laying workers is a lost cause which is why the usual method, or indeed the only one I know short of killing them all, is to take the hive some distance away, say a hundred yards, and simply shake all the bees onto the ground. If you have other colonies in your apiary some of the bees will probably find a new home but others, and the the theory is this includes the actual worker or workers laying eggs, will perish.

A shook swarm is where you shake the bees into a new hive but this won't work with laying workers as they will transfer across and things will be just the same.

If you have a drone laying queen then it is not necessary to do a shook swarm. Simply find the queen and remove her. The replacement queen should be introduced in a cage and opinions differ how long after the removal of the old queen this should be - from at the same time to several days later. If you don't have a replacement queen you could introduce a frame with eggs and let them rear their own. If doing this method it will help if the bees are well fed for the first week or so, especially if there is bad weather. The quality of the queen depends on her being well stocked with royal jelly although a queen raised under emergency conditions is usually not considered as good as one raised in a queen-right colony.

 

[Brian Bush]

To remove Drone laying workers from the hive shake off some distance away onto a white sheet. Put mainly new frames in a hive on the old site but include some food, a drawn brood frame and a frame of brood.
All the bees will return to the hive. even house bees can fly. Drone laying workers will probably not make it as their abdomen is slightly distended. If they do make it back the other bees do not admit them.
Similarly a duff queen will find it difficult to fly back because of her abdomen. Remember she only flies as a virgin or after slimmimg before swarming.
you should with luck have a clean hive. if you include a frame of eggs from another hive they should build queen cells and raise a new queen.
Alternatively introduce a new queen to the hive
The old queen should be fairly easy to find on the sheet. Most bees will go back to the hive. The queen may have a cluster around her or be spotted crawling across the sheet.
I have used the empty the hive method twice. both times I was successful
Commit regicide!!!

 

[Polyanwood]

If you put a QE under brood box, the queen and any drones won't be able to get in - just in case you don't find queen on sheet!

 

[Onge]

Thanks for the reply troyca.