Can you overfeed syrup at this time of year?

[Into the lions den]

Thanks ITTLD. Our SBI was telling us that only this week she had found one hive where the beekeeper had put foundation into the brood nest. Shock horror! She thinks splitting the brood nest is a complete nono at any time of year but sacrilege to do it now.
It's good to hear beekeeping tips from someone who has experimented on large numbers of colonies to find better ways of doing things.

Beekeeping is opinion rich and fact deficient. That's a fact...or is that just my opinion? Point is it gets really hard to distinguish the two, as opinions from 'heavyweights' tend to be taken to be facts.

Your SBI may be right or may be wrong. Its all in the circumstances. I am quite specific that this needs to be done concurrent with significant feeding. Foundation shoved in the middle of an unfed colony or one with no natural honey flow will just not get drawn and become a problem, and it matters little what month that is.

Just out of curiosity try even one frame of foundation into the middle of the nest while feeding this autumn. Then tell us what happened.

 

[Matt77]

Thanks for that ITLD, it sounds like you all have to work very hard. I've just been looking through your albums. Again facinating!

Hope the ankle feels better soon.

 

[Tremyfro]

So...you are saying that at the time of feeding your colonies with 10 litres of invert syrup...you also chequerboard the brood nest with foundation? This is with mature colonies? Or do you do this even with smaller colonies? Do you then go back to these colonies to move the older comb towards the outside of the brood nest? Or is that left until the spring?
Please excuse all the questions...but like Obee1 I have been told the opposite. I have done this in the spring as a swarm control though.

 

[Finman]

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Come on Lion.....

You write that you have ovet 2000 hives. I do not doupt at all that you cannot feed your hives.

I have read in this forum that 20 kg Sugar is good in UK Winter.
You write that you feed only 7 kg.

i have read too that Scotland is colder than Finland.

Everything is mere mess in this forum. I do not need any advice from this forum. I know what to do. I just wonder this mess. Simplest things are most difficult... Like that crazy feeding. . I think that feeding is the most simple task in beekeeping... And let it be so.

The most shocking reasoning was, that oxalic acid and polyhive is toxic combination to the bees. Medication, medication....

What I will do now. I make full toxicology tests at home and I will eliminate all wife's chemicals from bathroom. Windows open that house insulation will not kill me and my wife.
Propably the whole flat and its 20 apartments will be evacuated. ... But before that I will feed my hives with conventional manner and I extract my crop. During that time let the folks die. I cannot help them.
.

 

[Hivemaker.]

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The most shocking reasoning was, that oxalic acid and polyhive is toxic combination to the bees. Medication, medication....

Calm down, that was just a bit of pseudoscience, don't believe all you read.

 

[beeno]

Not responding to any particular post. You cannot say that a certain amount of sugar feed will do the trick as it depends on what the bees choose to do with it. If they are brooding they will quickly use the sugar and if not they will store it - that's bees for you. You have a plan and they do something completely different - I have learnt that!

 

[Finman]

You have a plan and they do something completely different - I have learnt that!

I change the queen if they do not obey me .
Sometimes they try that they do not take syrup, but I put them to take.

And if they obey, however I change the queens.

When feeding queen changes are succesfull. I join just now the last hives.
If they are too weak, It is easy when I return hives to cottage yard.

But it took to me 7 years at the "beginning" when surprices stopped.
.

 

[sipa]

I agree with ITLD that splitting the brood nest /checkerboarding to get foundation drawn is a great method to get lots drawn quickly.

We do it every year on the Rape flow, fresh drawn comb is more valuable to us than the rape honey.

But don't try it unless you have a flow you are willing to sacrifice, or you feed to simulate a flow.

 

[Finman]

I agree with ITLD that splitting the brood nest to get foundation drawn is a great method to get lots drawn quickly.

.

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No we talk about wintering and winter feeding. I think that Liont meant the case when you split the the nest with foundation. A new comb plays as barrier during winter and may lead to isolation starving. Cluster may move to the one side and starve there.

Drawing foundations is a huge work burden to the bees which should be longliving winterers.

I wonder why guys do not have time to give foundations during yield period, and then they try to "encourage" draw foundations when they are not willing to do that job. My hives each drew again 3 boxes of foundations during summer and I have new combs as much as I need in spring.

 

[sipa]

We do it every year on the Rape flow

If you didn't know, this is in the spring. Just talking about drawing foundation, that's all.

 

[Into the lions den]

..

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Come on Lion.....

You write that you have ovet 2000 hives. I do not doupt at all that you cannot feed your hives.

Why not? I have 3 teams at work. We bring in two tankers of syrup for autumn...thats 50 tonnes....but about half the second load is retained in tanks for spring.

I have read in this forum that 20 kg Sugar is good in UK Winter.
You write that you feed only 7 kg.

No I did not. I wrote that we feed 14Kg. Thats a little over 10Kg dry weight, or the equivalent of around 11.5Kg of honey. Its enough, given that there is always a small amount leftin the nests anyway.

i have read too that Scotland is colder than Finland.

That is drivel. We are talking about winter. In summer its the reverse. Maritime climate evens out the temperature a lot, yours is much more continental type.

Everything is mere mess in this forum. I do not need any advice from this forum. I know what to do. I just wonder this mess. Simplest things are most difficult... Like that crazy feeding. . I think that feeding is the most simple task in beekeeping... And let it be so.

Where did I try to give you advice???? I disagreed with you for sure, but would not have the temerity to tell you what to do in Finland. I have explained that our feeding is as simple as it gets, but you seem intent on claiming it to be complex. It is not.

The most shocking reasoning was, that oxalic acid and polyhive is toxic combination to the bees. Medication, medication....

Where on earth did you get that from me? Total rubbish.

The rest I just deleted as it was irrelevant nonsense, not related to this thread at all.
.

 

[Finman]

..

Question was not about me and you on this forum.

If someone is not able to feed his hives, he/she must have nursed bees under one year. Otherwise they starve during winter.

However, beekeepers are adult people and they cannot be so helpless.

Lion, have you done "full toxicity test" in your hives".

.

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[Into the lions den]

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No we talk about wintering and winter feeding. I think that Liont meant the case when you split the the nest with foundation. A new comb plays as barrier during winter and may lead to isolation starving. Cluster may move to the one side and starve there.

Drawing foundations is a huge work burden to the bees which should be longliving winterers.
.

I guess you just dont get it. So be it. There is NO foundation in the middle of the nest in the winter. It is given at winter feed time....like in the next three to four weeks...and gets fully drawn and they will probably even raise a generation of brood in it. It is no barrier.

To bring in the question from SIPA here, the reason for doing it at this time of year has several aspects to it, health and economics being prominent, however one of the main reasons is that, unlike in the earlier part of the season, they make no drone cells and the combs are invariably perfect.

To the question about checkerboarding, yes, its like that. We do not have time to go back and move stuff around again. Did it as an experiment several years back and it worked fine, but never do it now. Try one comb at feeding time as an experiment. Tend not to do it with nucs, as these are building up on predominantly new comb anyway.

Finman again. Bees on a flow make wax. The right bees of the right age do it just fine and almost as an incidental process. Just because you dont see it does not mean they are not simply removing the wax scales and dumping them out the door. they are making the wax anyway, to produce cappings. On a heavy flow wax production can be very big.....but you know what....NO hives at all drew much wax in our part of Scotland this year. No weather, no flows. Until the last few days it has been the season from hell.

 

[Into the lions den]

Lion, have you done "full toxicity test" in your hives".

.

Do not even know what it is and cannot imagine why I would need to. Do you do it?

 

[Finman]

Do not even know what it is and cannot imagine why I would need to. Do you do it?

No. I do not know what it is. Not even partial test.
....

 

[Millet]

No. I do not know what it is. Not even partial test.
....

Why did you ask then.. haha.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Do not even know what it is and cannot imagine why I would need to. Do you do it?

No. I do not know what it is. Not even partial test.
....

Why did you ask then.. haha.

It all stems from this thread.....http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=501858&postcount=91

your problems with oxalic will be

1) the bees wont be clustered
2) the oxalic may be more toxic to the bees - i dont know because we dont use it anymore.

have they done a full toxicology study on their varroacides in polystyrene?

 

[Cussword]

Great thread, thanks for asking all the questions that I wanted to ask. Big thanks to ITLD for all the info, and being calm (it's not easy) with finman.

Off topic,is there a way to save your favourite threads. It's a b*gger sifting back?

 

[Finman]

Tupla

...

 

[Finman]

Big thanks to ITLD for all the info, and being calm (it's not easy) with finman.

?

Two hive owners are right. Their 2 hives really need 5 different systems to give syrup to hives. Winter feeding is the most simple task in beekeeping. IT must be a challenge!

2000 hive owner can do to bees what ever. But two hive beginner needs only one habit to feed them. Main thing is that he does it.


Thanks to Cussword for his intellectual poking!