can i mix different type bees

[Ros2710]

Inspected my 2 hives today and have 1 supersedure cell on in middle of a frame. It is not capped yet. These are welsh black bees and I've had them 3 half years. They have not swarmed or shown any indication yet. They superseded last year too.
I want to make up a nuke using this cell but was wondering if I could also take some bees from my other hive which are buckfast bees as that hive is brimming with bees.
Sorry if its a silly question.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Why make a nuc from the superseding colony? Surely best to keep both queens and make a split from the Buckies if you want to make increase?

 

[VEG]

They supercede because they are not happy with the queen

 

[MuswellMetro]

Inspected my 2 hives today and have 1 supersedure cell on in middle of a frame. It is not capped yet. These are welsh black bees and I've had them 3 half years. They have not swarmed or shown any indication yet. They superseded last year too.
I want to make up a nuke using this cell but was wondering if I could also take some bees from my other hive which are buckfast bees as that hive is brimming with bees.
Sorry if its a silly question.

if you add a QC with bees to another hives bees they will fight ,so you need to use a method of stopping the fighting

Including

1) Spraying with rose water or other smelly substance OR
2) Using bees from three hives ( too busy sorting out who is enemy you fight) OR
3) Brushing off all the nurse bees ( not shaken as the QC will be damaged) and letting the other hive nurse the QC ( shake in more bees etc)

 

[oliver90owner]

No problem, apart from the fact they are superceding for a good reason?

Possible outcome of removing the supercedure cell could be another is built, queen goes completely bad or they go into swarm mode. Beware.

 

[Finman]

.
Difficult to say according that one case.

How big that hive use to be?

If it supercede so quickly, there is something wrong in the breed.

Swarming is sometimes a sign of life vigour. It becomes out when different bees cross together.

To take a daughter from a queen which has something wrong in 2 generation......not good idea.

.

 

[Ros2710]

well I would like some advice on best way to do this please. I haven't got any swarm cells yet .

 

[Ros2710]

It is a single brood national. I know they supercede cos they want new queen but thought they may build another cell if I had that one. I was just looking at a way to increase hives and am inexperienced as haven't wanted to do so until now.

 

[Finman]

.
It is a small colony at this time of year.
How many frames was the winter cluster and how big it was after winter?

How big is your another hive now?

 

[Swarm]

I'd advise you to leave them alone to supersede, best all round IMO. Supersedure is a favourable trait. If you want to increase you could maybe do that with the other colony?

I would not suggest this is evidence that something is wrong with them, more likely a poorly mated queen, last year was not too good for nuptial flights.

 

[Swarm]

Single brood National is not uncommon, I know more beeks on this format than 14x12 or otherwise in these parts. You have some time before it is capped (you'd have some idea what stage it is at) you may find another, hopefully on another frame.

 

[Ros2710]

last year all brood frames full brood . winter cluster across middle 3/4 frames. Now eggs/brood 7/8 frames.
My other hive is 9/10 frames brood and I put another brood box on last week and they have started to use this. There are loads of bees. I was just looking into a way of increasing without having to buy a queen.

 

[VEG]

you could have left the other hive to get crowded forcing them into swarm mode but then that is like russian roulette that you get to them in time.

 

[Ros2710]

I thought about that but didn.t think it was a good idea.

 

[For want of a better word]

Inspected my 2 hives today and have 1 supersedure cell on in middle of a frame. It is not capped yet. These are welsh black bees and I've had them 3 half years. They have not swarmed or shown any indication yet. They superseded last year too.
I want to make up a nuke using this cell but was wondering if I could also take some bees from my other hive which are buckfast bees as that hive is brimming with bees.
Sorry if its a silly question.

I can see where you are coming from ......

Leave the black bee colony to do its own thing.

You could increase by taking some frames of brood* with bees attached from your super prolific Italian type hybrid bees (that you for some reason call "buckfasts") and placing in a nuc together with a frame of some brood with eggs from your black bees.
* ensure that the brood from the prolific hive is at least 5 day on, by excluding queen.

Feed 1;1 ... any flying bees will return to hive, younger brood bees will stay with young brood and quite happily bring on a new black queen for you from the eggs you gave them.
I have found that Amm do tend to superceed, as you have noted... although saying that did have one swarm in the last couple of weeks... resulting, on yesterdays inspection with 2 very healthy colonies, the swarm plus the original both with new queens ( original was marked).

Try it !

 

[Ros2710]

Thanks i,ll try it. I am not worried about the honey just wanted a new hive next year.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The ones on double brood are ideal for a Demaree split - this might give you enough QC's for 2 or 3 nucs (if you want to stick with the Buckies that is.
As for the other one - leave them alone to supersede otherwise you could end up with a nuc and a colony with a dud queen.
After they've sorted their new queen out you could then build them up to make increase (Demaree, walk away split or whatever)
Or do something like Icanhopit suggests - make up a queenless nuc and put a frame of eggs (no bees) from the Welsh blacks and make sure it's a QC from that frame is the one you keep. - you could do that now without disturbing the supersedure cell.

 

[Ros2710]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll read up on demarree and try that. I'm sure i'll be back asking for advice

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'll read up on demarree and try that.

but remember the correct use of a Demaree is swarm prevention (pulling down all the QC's every seven days until they stop - what you want to do is employ one cycle to get them to make loads of QC's so you can split the upper box into a number of nucs (and still have the 'mother ' hive)

 

[Ros2710]

how can I get them to make swarm cells if they don't want to?