Can Bees Clean Away Mould?

[jenkinsbrynmair]

They have their uses for mixed frames and I use them often.

....and that's about it, once you have worked them out avoid then unless forced to use them.
You can even buy Hoffman converters which fit on the side bars of DN/SN1 frames if you are unfortunate enough to come across any.
Whatever you do - resist the urge to go over to the dark side

 

[Murox]

.................even buy Hoffman converters which fit on the side bars of DN/SN1 frames if you are unfortunate enough to come across any..............

Yes they're very handy. I tend to make dummy frames out of any DN/SN1's I inherit.

 

[thorn]

....and that's about it, once you have worked them out avoid then unless forced to use them.
You can even buy Hoffman converters which fit on the side bars of DN/SN1 frames if you are unfortunate enough to come across any.
Whatever you do - resist the urge to go over to the dark side

Perhaps you could explain the problem you have with them.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Perhaps you could explain the problem you have with them.

perhaps you could explain the advantages?

 

[thorn]

perhaps you could explain the advantages?

You're the one criticising them. I'd like to learn from your wisdom.

 

[Erichalfbee]

For me they are fiddly and move about. When they have been propolised they are the devil to scrape clean when I put supers away. When Hoffman frames are so cheap it’s a no brainier

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

apart from being plastic, they often fall off the lugs meaning a scrabble to retrieve and push back on the end of the lug whilst holding the frame in the other hand - hoping it doesn't fall
they get lost in the grass and guaranteed you don't have a spare conveniently kicking around
they may have slipped off easily enough, but you can guarantee they will be a PITA to put back on
when they don't fall off the lug, they invariably move along the lug thus they don't marry with the partnering spacer leading to badly spaced frames
when you need to move them, you can guarantee they will be clarted up with propolis and impossible to reposition
cleaning them, or the lugs/top bars of the frames are also a nightmare
Unlike Hoffmans whose side bars rest against each other for part of their length giving them some stability SN/DN1s just swing about during transportation or moving off and on the hive.
they fall off during extraction meaning a scrabble to retrieve them
Other beekeepers laugh and point at you if you use them
I can't think of any pro's

 

[enrico]

But I will set out the pros as I have used them for many years. Bees stick them on the lugs in days so they never fall off easily. Always put them at the very end of the lug and they always fit together perfectly and the bees cant propolise in between them! They make it easier to handle the frame as you can get your fingers under them. They don't crush bees easily as you can see the bees before you push the frames together and just wait until the space is empty before you push them together. They are easy to clean as you just throw them in water and soda crystals at the end of the year for 24hours and wipe clean with a cloth. You can use the different colours for different frames, for example red on frames that need replacing, yellow for frame with queen cells , green for good frames etc.
Just pull them off for extraction. It isn't difficult!
You can mix frames to your heart's content. They are cheap as chips to buy and means you can buy the cheapest frames.
Horses for courses. Marmite springs to mind

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Bees stick them on the lugs in days so they never fall off easily.

hoffmans dont' need sticking on
and yes, they do fall off easily - even after weeks not days

Always put them at the very end of the lug

they will invariably move - had the misfortune of having to manage colonies with them, so it's from experience

hey are easy to clean as you just throw them in water and soda crystals

so you have to take them off and replace them - and then they move around

They make it easier to handle the frame as you can get your fingers under them.

as with hoffmans

They don't crush bees easily as you can see the bees before you push the frames together

exactly the same as hoffmans

yellow for frame with queen cell

you just said the bees propolise them in place - do you really want to fiddle around removing one and replacing with a different colour and risk compromising your QC?

You can mix frames to your heart's content

can't you do that with Hoffmans?

Just pull them off for extraction. It isn't difficult!

I thought you said the bees stuck them firmly in place?

 

[jeff33]

In the world beyond hives created by humans, honey bees probably have to deal with this sort of stuff all the time. Unless the entire frame were a mouldy ruin I don't think I'd really worry about it.

James

They don't get the chance in our hives but in the wild they also manage wax moth population and will let them deal with some of the unwanted older comb.

 

[thorn]

apart from being plastic, they often fall off the lugs meaning a scrabble to retrieve and push back on the end of the lug whilst holding the frame in the other hand - hoping it doesn't fall
they get lost in the grass and guaranteed you don't have a spare conveniently kicking around
they may have slipped off easily enough, but you can guarantee they will be a PITA to put back on
when they don't fall off the lug, they invariably move along the lug thus they don't marry with the partnering spacer leading to badly spaced frames
when you need to move them, you can guarantee they will be clarted up with propolis and impossible to reposition
cleaning them, or the lugs/top bars of the frames are also a nightmare
Unlike Hoffmans whose side bars rest against each other for part of their length giving them some stability SN/DN1s just swing about during transportation or moving off and on the hive.
they fall off during extraction meaning a scrabble to retrieve them
Other beekeepers laugh and point at you if you use them
I can't think of any pro's

Our experiences differ.

 

[user 20297]

Plastic spacers are cheap and represent a small percentage of the plastic that most of us have in our lives. I got hold of some that I didn't really need just so that I could have experience of them; I've done that with many things in beekeeping that I have been told are a waste of space.

There have been situations where the occasional use of a spacer has been very useful. Although I rate myself as fairly careful when pushing frames together, in a busy hive I don't find Hoffmans all that effective at avoiding the crushing of bees.

 

[enrico]

hoffmans dont' need sticking on
and yes, they do fall off easily - even after weeks not days

they will invariably move - had the misfortune of having to manage colonies with them, so it's from experience

so you have to take them off and replace them - and then they move around

as with hoffmans

exactly the same as hoffmans

you just said the bees propolise them in place - do you really want to fiddle around removing one and replacing with a different colour and risk compromising your QC?

can't you do that with Hoffmans?

I thought you said the bees stuck them firmly in place?

I didn't really expect you to agree, I , on the other hand, have an open mind and accept that some beekeepers may find things useful that I don't. If we all went down the same route we would never change or learn. I accept that Hoffman's are useful, I also accept that plastic ends are useful.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Marmite.

 

[user 20297]

Marmite.

@jenkinsbrynmair ?

 

[jeff33]

Yes they're very handy. I tend to make dummy frames out of any DN/SN1's I inherit.

Same here and I slowly get rid of all the plastic spacers that way, including the Hoffman spacers which I equally dislike. I have upgraded all the supers with 10 or 11 slots castellated spacers.

 

[Erichalfbee]

@jenkinsbrynmair ?

JBM is marmite?
Aren’t we all to one person or another?

 

[Antipodes]

Reading these posts, I'm glad when I go into the bee shop here there is only one option for frames....and Vegemite on the supermarket shelves.

 

[jeff33]

so I listed their perceived faults

Which I think far outweigh their benefits, especially when they get dislodged in the extractor, end up in a pool of honey and clog up the valve . Lesson learnt for me here

 

[enrico]

Which I think far outweigh their benefits, especially when they get dislodged in the extractor, end up in a pool of honey and clog up the valve . Lesson learnt for me here

You just take them off before you put them in the extractor. It seems so simple!