Building a National Hive

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Don’t make the hives thicker and heavier.
Give them a cosy
Have you use Kingspan insulation? What sort of winter temperatures are your hives exposed to? What about damp levels?

There are so many what ifs for new bee keepers to consider!
 
Bees survive and indeed thrive in bog standard nationals, sure use some modern materials for a few improvements but a dry standard wooden box is more than up to the job!!
 
Just checking, as I know that I need to get the right balance between temperature and ventilation so that the bees are snug and dry for their winter cluster.

It's simple really, no such creature as the right balance between ventilation and insulation. insulation won't harm them, excessive ventilation can.
You need to ensure you have no holes in your crown board, no matches propping it open, no draughts, open mesh floor is fine but in an exposed location only a little is needed
Glue a 40 or 50mm slab of celotex inside your roof and keep it there all year round.
 
Bees survive and indeed thrive in bog standard nationals, sure use some modern materials for a few improvements but a dry standard wooden box is more than up to the job!!

And have an even better chance in modern poly hives... a number of commercial beekeepers are using poly in preference to timber which probably tells you something...
 
I would like to increase the number of hives I have next year by building a wooden national. I have one wooden national hive which I brought. My husband has a garage full of woodworking tools, which I can use!

Which websites are worth looking at? There are so many different plans to follow. Are there any useful hints to note or pitfalls to avoid?

Thanks,
Emily

I make all my own hives and frames, love the work and can make things I simply cant buy with much better quality. My hives with frames cost out at £12 per 14x12 hive but get the materials very cheap. If I were you I would go with a simplified plan and use shortened frame lugs like smiths. PM me if you want some pictures and can email you what I do.
 
And have an even better chance in modern poly hives... a number of commercial beekeepers are using poly in preference to timber which probably tells you something...

As far as I have seen the majority use wood. I noticed ITLDs new hives this year were pine. Must have got a great price. They have about 1/3 of the floor mesh, 2/3rd solid. Weather proofed by hot dipping in wax. He uses a poly feeder on his wood hives, kept on over winter.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cxmo6ikzdq4z73v/Murray_home.jpg?dl=0

The commercial guys I've seen are mostly on wood but some have a mixture. Most seem to think that polystyrene really shines with nucleus colonies and mating nucs i.e. smaller colonies.

I guess if you had a load of wood hives you'd run them until they fell apart rather than replace them before their life is over, so perhaps over time more will shift over?
 
And have an even better chance in modern poly hives... a number of commercial beekeepers are using poly in preference to timber which probably tells you something...

Sure bees do well in poly and I’ve had plenty of poly hives since early 2000s in fact there was no poly National nucs when I first had them and I had to adapt the swienty Lang for National frames. A number of commercial beeks are using poly correct and I can’t think of any commercial guys that use poly and nothing else. The fact is there’s many other things a beek needs to get right before worrying about if his hives are poly or not!! And I’ve had them a good deal longer than many.
 
And have an even better chance in modern poly hives... a number of commercial beekeepers are using poly in preference to timber which probably tells you something...

Yes, it tells us that honey crops in poly can be 10-20% higher (less bee-energy and stores used to modulate internal climate); overwintering easier; lighter equipment = reduced beekeeper energy and transport & equipment costs.

E&M: check the posts of ITLD (Murray McGregor of Denrosa Apiaries) who runs several thousand UK colonies and was an early user of poly. His clear conclusions were drawn from experience, but beekeeper tradition plods along claiming wood is sacrosanct: tradition, you note, not contemporary practical assessment. Ian is quite right to claim that bees overwinter fine in wood, but when the winter is hard and the variables unkind, thriving is less likely and survival compromised more quickly than in poly.

As I understand it, when the BS National was designed after the Second World War wood was scarce and expensive and BS had to specify from what was available; thermal efficiency was less relevant. On the other hand, poly manufacturers set out from the start to improve thermal efficiency and so enable colonies to not only survive, but thrive and produce in excess of wood.

In defence of the wood-lovers, bear in mind that beekeeping is a craft and making, bodging, and repairing is craftwork building valuable skills, and some (including me) like nothing better than spend time fettling wooden equipment. But as poly beats tradition in many ways, and as time is a rare asset , poly is my way forward.
 
I noticed ITLDs new hives this year were pine. Must have got a great price. They have about 1/3 of the floor mesh, 2/3rd solid. Weather proofed by hot dipping in wax. He uses a poly feeder on his wood hives, kept on over winter.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/cxmo6ikzdq4z73v/Murray_home.jpg?dl=0

The commercial guys I've seen are mostly on wood but some have a mixture. Most seem to think that polystyrene really shines with nucleus colonies and mating nucs i.e. smaller colonies.

I guess if you had a load of wood hives you'd run them until they fell apart rather than replace them before their life is over, so perhaps over time more will shift over?

Bear in mind, Steve, that Murray's recent choice of pine was determined by the owner of a vast estate, who agreed to Murray's use of it for bees but didn't want plastic on his land.
The part-mesh, part-solid floors were a solution to a manufacturing cock-up (story buried somewhere in Murray's Twitter). I like the accidental principle.
 
The fact he could not use poly did not stop him putting the bees there though!!!
 
Seems he went and bought 750 hives and got the nail gun out...LOL

PH
 
Seems he went and bought 750 hives and got the nail gun out...LOL

PH

Who wouldn't given the opportunity of exclusive access to an estate in the right place with the right forage ? ~ a commercial enterprise would always take a commercial decision ... that's how they survive. I know Murray has a
mix of wood and poly ... most commercial beekeepers have - you would not dump serviceable boxes that were still earning their keep ... but whether they choose timber out of current preference I'm not sure ...
 
I doubt it afaik his preference is for poly due to the extra honey but no doubt he will be around soon when the extracting and feeding is over.

PH
 
Don’t make the hives thicker and heavier.
Give them a cosy

Very nice! :)
But I would be leaving it the same thickness all year, rather than a cosy for the winter. ;)
Also, as I've mentioned before, ecoschool, we can't recycle poly here yet. :(
 
Very nice! :)
But I would be leaving it the same thickness all year, rather than a cosy for the winter. ;)
Also, as I've mentioned before, ecoschool, we can't recycle poly here yet. :(

Yes so would I but it’s a compromise for Stan who likes wooden hives and does all my woodwork. Me? I’d have them all poly.
 
Injection moulded poly is far from needing recycling. I know a bee farmer running a large number of poly bought in the early 80's that are in fine fettle and will be for decades yet.

The answer to the fettlers needs are to make the floors and supers and crownboards and use poly for the rest. Best of both worlds.

Just a heads up that having the first super as poly is better than using wood as the bees, at least up here, go up into poly faster than wood. ;)

PH
 
Yes, it tells us that honey crops in poly can be 10-20% higher (less bee-energy and stores used to modulate internal climate); overwintering easier; lighter equipment = reduced beekeeper energy and transport & equipment costs.

E&M: check the posts of ITLD (Murray McGregor of Denrosa Apiaries) who runs several thousand UK colonies and was an early user of poly. His clear conclusions were drawn from experience, but beekeeper tradition plods along claiming wood is sacrosanct: tradition, you note, not contemporary practical assessment. Ian is quite right to claim that bees overwinter fine in wood, but when the winter is hard and the variables unkind, thriving is less likely and survival compromised more quickly than in poly.

As I understand it, when the BS National was designed after the Second World War wood was scarce and expensive and BS had to specify from what was available; thermal efficiency was less relevant. On the other hand, poly manufacturers set out from the start to improve thermal efficiency and so enable colonies to not only survive, but thrive and produce in excess of wood.

In defence of the wood-lovers, bear in mind that beekeeping is a craft and making, bodging, and repairing is craftwork building valuable skills, and some (including me) like nothing better than spend time fettling wooden equipment. But as poly beats tradition in many ways, and as time is a rare asset , poly is my way forward.

I completely understand your point of view from a commercial basis, especially with regard to weight.
However, we don't use poly because it's unsustainable in this neck of the woods.
We have gone for thicker wood instead, not because wood is sacrosanct, but because at present, it's the best option.
I would like to see some of the poly v wood statements statistically analysed though.
There's usually very little reference made to thickness of either product.
If it's standard National v standard poly, then I'm sure the poly would win hands down.
What about all the other flavours though?
 
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