Brother adams hive

[wightbees]

Reading more books today i came across a few pages of interest on the subject of hives.Baring in mind that when the Nat was first made and the local bees being of the Black bee the nat seemed a good choice(so my book says) Now as time has gone by the types of bee have change so much so that most Nats need to be of a double brood . Well Brother Adam did a 5 yr
trail of this and this is why he came up with his own hive.The trail proved over the 5 yrs that although he could run a double brood the bees where not really happy with this arrangement and that by using a larger hive they seemed to produce more honey compared to the Nat with the same bee type in.
So why is my Question, even though you can give more room by adding BB and supers.( the book says less wood) Kind of makes sense. Do the bees waste time starting from scratch each time they have to start a new frame ?

Also if this is the case why still so many Nat hives, if it = less honey compared to a larger hive Lang or MD for example.

Has or is there any new theories on this ?
regards
WB

 

[hedgerow pete]

i was under the impression that brother adam used modified dadant hives.

and if you try the search button i tried to disscuss this with the idea that modern F1 hybreed bees needed a better design of hive

 

[hedgerow pete]

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1528&highlight=hive+designs

this sporned several other threads about hive sizes and designs

 

[For want of a better word]

My WBCs were given to me ( incidentally from a farm cottage clearance, but not a stones throw from Buckfast!) so that is where I started, then I was given a load of Nationals, and a few MD hive parts, those I swapped for more National hive bits and pieces.
Then another cheap find of WBC type hives................. and another lot of Nationals including some T£ornes KDs ( still to bee assembled) came when purchasing a bigger and better separator!
My father in law got me an original Lee nuc at an auction, and another WBC ( a Lee in unused condition! came my way via the auctioneer who had no idea what to do with it!!!
Thought it would look pretty on his roof terrace, but did not have room, and was "allergic to bees anyway........................................

fortunately the frames all fit!

Must experiment with a top bar!

 

[drstitson]

i also thought brother adam hives were 12 frame dadants

BTW re the old thread listed above - i loved the comment "a (I believe) teenage novice in Devon who in all likely hood by that stage had not travelled out of the south west of the UK if even that."

i don't know how that explains how he was German.

 

[wightbees]

Pete i remember that thread have you got any further with the ideas of bee breeding yet. From what i have read on a honey production issues, it would seem from B Adams trail the bigger BB is the way foward. Unless you have Black bees.

 

[Bee-Key-Pur]

I think at this point in time it is more because of tradition and the fact that hives and parts in this standard are still very much available, therefore cost affective, even though not the best size for the occupants...

Brian.

 

[wightbees]

Yes they are but it's not standard as the MD holds 11. So he came up with the idea that 12 frames was better from his trails and more honey per a hive . So my book says.

 

[Haughton Honey]

Hivemaker will be along a little later on to tell you that one of the largest honey farms in the country uses Nationals.........

 

[wightbees]

Maybe so, but imagine how well they would be doing if they have read my book

 

[Somerford]

and the largest honey farm probably uses Nationals because...

....they are heavy when full..

...but have you ever tried lifting an 11 frame dadant ??

...perhaps in India where they have all terrain forklifts called elephants to lift things....

...but in this country, it's a damn sight easier to lift a National (with a bit of grunting) than many other hives on one's own....even a 14x12 gets a bit on the hefty side

However, a WBC can survive a good knock with it's outer skin!

S

 

[wightbees]

But what i want to know is it right that MD or the likes end with more honey on a like for like colony but in different hives , compared to Nats ?

 

[chipper]

After reading Brother Adams thoughts on the matter of hive size. It made such sense to me that I launched into Beekeeping using Langstroth Jumbo. I only went for this size as I intended to work alone and knew the weights involved in using MD Hives and Supers.
The whole double brood box concept did nt make much sense to me.
And, still does nt ....25 years on and 120 hives later......

 

[Poly Hive]

Actually no. The largest HF in Scotland uses Smiths. Sold off their Nats as they were responsible for extra truck runs with supers. Ya get more on with rectangles.

I had to think about it but yep... canna argue.

PH

 

[BKF Admin]

Easy to spot a Buckfast hive,they were white with orange roofs..

 

[hedgerow pete]

whight bees , some of the answers to your questions are hidden in that thread i linked for you . basicly the synopsis is this

older style of bee breeds, not in particular but as a start lets say black bees are normaly set up with a queen and this is the size setting point what your queen lays!!!!!!

so any way an older style bee will happily grow and use a 12 by 14 brood box singular and will stay in it.

now when we start to either buy better quality queens or as brother adam spend some time breeding a more prolific queen then we easily out grow the cell size of a 12 by 14 brood box.

so still keeping with the queen/cell sizes as the rest of the box is not important yet.

so petes new super duper queen can lay more eggs/use more cells than can be fitted into a single 12 by 14 brood box so we have now out grown a wbc standard brood box and a national standard brood box so we are still growing and as such the 12 by 14 is now to small so lets go up a few sizes.

commercial/langstroff/ dadant singles and doubles or even a 12 by 14 double starts it work its way into the equations

so lets start with the basics again,
do you have a queen or breeding programe that you belive will need a larger cell count than the standard box you are using now?

do you want to use double or tripple box or one single larger cell size if so roughly how many cells do you think you will need( so many eggs per day per queen times 30)

now to me personaly i am a single box man and always will be i dont like doubles and thats just me , many commercial farmers use doubles with ease whilst i cant !

so single or double , if its a single then the dadant yours man as she is massive and brother adams hive had an extra frame just to make it even bigger

now whilst on the first thread i was trying to see where we could go with by designing a hive around the modern breeding bees it got panned big style by many who thought i was to much of a heretic but if read in the cold light of day the basic idea was that we are mainly using hive boxes designed for the older style of bee and with new breeds etc would it not be an idea to disscuss a new hive to suit them

think farmers ripping down all the old small barns to replace them with large barns for the now larger cows

so hopefully that should have confused the life out of you

 

[nonstandard]

................ it would seem from B Adams trail the bigger BB is the way foward. Unless you have Black bees.

Is the Glen hive going to see a resurgence?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Hivemaker will be along a little later on to tell you that one of the largest honey farms in the country uses Nationals.........

Yes they do Cris,nationals,with solid floors,no insulation,no queen excluders,and commercial supers. Most commercial beekeepers i know round this area are similar. They use JCB's for loading,moving ect,so not much heavy manual lifting to do.

 

[wightbees]

Actually Pete it does make sense.But that doesn't mean people will go with that theory.

 

[Black Comb]

WB. Critical mass seems important.

a 30 year man explained it like this to me.

If you have one hive that produces 100lbs of honey then if you split it into 2 (assuming both queens similar) you will not get 2 hives producing 50 lbs, they will both produce substantially less than this.

So you go for the maximum critical mass per hive that you can. Of course there is a limit to how far the queen substance will spread so that's why commercial operators like to re-queen every year (helps with little swarming too).