British black bee

[madasafish]

Indeed an excellent choice, some would say the only responsible one.

If you wanted to keep pet crayfish but there was a chance some gravid females could escape into the environment, and a certainty many males would, it would be irresponsible and illegal to keep anything but native white-clawed crayfish, why should bees be any different ?

Hmm.. the logic of that comparison has escaped me... one species is pure, not mongrel and on its own of its type in its natural habitat. The other is not and has not been for two centuries...

 

[mbc]

Hmm.. the logic of that comparison has escaped me... one species is pure, not mongrel and on its own of its type in its natural habitat. The other is not and has not been for two centuries...

The analogy holds if you consider a native creature in its natural habitat being given a good kicking by the introduction of non native creatures and their pests and parasites, for the good of a few, with little or no regard to our indigenous creatures.
If that logic escapes you then it cant be helped

 

[beekeeping4you]

The analogy holds if you consider a native creature in its natural habitat being given a good kicking by the introduction of non native creatures and their pests and parasites, for the good of a few, with little or no regard to our indigenous creatures.
If that logic escapes you then it cant be helped

The logic still escapes.

Regards
Reiner

 

[mbc]

The logic still escapes.

Regards
Reiner

No vestige interest in this by any chance ?

Try imagining some stock keepers keeping indigenous stock and slowly trying to improve their stock through careful selection and then an incomer sets up next door and brings in different stock and lets his bulls ruin the efforts of those next door by crossing with them.

 

[madasafish]

No vestige interest in this by any chance ?

Try imagining some stock keepers keeping indigenous stock and slowly trying to improve their stock through careful selection and then an incomer sets up next door and brings in different stock and lets his bulls ruin the efforts of those next door by crossing with them.

Tough.

Isolate your stock or flood the place with your own drones.


If we followed your logic, the common milk cow would not exist and we would be farming aurochs.
If I did not know better, those who exist in a minority want to control the actions of a majority... there are several descriptions of that...

 

[beekeeping4you]

No vestige interest in this by any chance ?

Try imagining some stock keepers keeping indigenous stock and slowly trying to improve their stock through careful selection and then an incomer sets up next door and brings in different stock and lets his bulls ruin the efforts of those next door by crossing with them.

Hi mbc,

Your are right, I definitely have vested interests, here's why:

1. I am the stock keeper in this area.
2. I'm keeping my stock (Buckfast) for 13 years now.
3. Whoever sets up next door will keep the local bee (Buckfast).
4. Elsewhere in Ireland they are still trying to improve
   their AMM without success even after 20 years... Buckfast bees do not need "improvement", they are perfect.

Food for thought?


Regards
Reiner

 

[mbc]

The other is not and has not been for two centuries...

wrong

Tough. nice!

If we followed your logic, the common milk cow would not exist and we would be farming aurochs.

Are you sure? I thought the modern cows were all derived from improvements of the ancient cows like aurochs

[*]Elsewhere in Ireland they are still trying to improve
their AMM without success even after 20 years...wrong Buckfast bees do not need "improvement", they are perfect.
[/LIST]"perfect"??! please, even Brother Adam had no such illusions, your assertion is nothing but ludicrous.
Food for thought?

Certainly food for thought. I'm personally glad that many people do have thought and consideration for others and the environment they live in.

 

[Swarm]

 

[For want of a better word]

Hi mbc,

Your are right, I definitely have vested interests, here's why:

1. I am the stock keeper in this area.
2. I'm keeping my stock (Buckfast) for 13 years now.
3. Whoever sets up next door will keep the local bee (Buckfast).
4. Elsewhere in Ireland they are still trying to improve
   their AMM without success even after 20 years... Buckfast bees do not need "improvement", they are perfect.

Food for thought?


Regards
Reiner

There is now no such beast as a Buckfast bee.... after all the years since BA produced it ( as it MAY have been) due to the simple fact that there would have been such a level of introgression of into the one time gene pool, that was very small at its inception, that there is no possibility that it can have remained pure !

As for a LOCAL bee... well even the beekeeperess at Buckfast Abbey today ( and there can be nowhere more LOCAL as that) says that there is no such thing as a Buckfast bee... she has Devon LOCAL mongrels !

There may of course be lots of Ligurian crosses.........Perfect for your purposes I am sure.

Why do all the so called Buckfast zealots get so upset when the endemic species is given a mention... will you take your a*se in your hand when your next door neighbour sets up with NewZealands, Carniolians, Greek or Starrbuck crosses?

Perhaps you would like to introduce a few snakes into the Emerald Isle?
or not.....
Saw a programme on TV about the pythons now infesting the Everglades... released pets apparently !

 

[mbc]

Hi mbc,

Your are right, I definitely have vested interests, here's why:

1. I am the stock keeper in this area.
2. I'm keeping my stock (Buckfast) for 13 years now.
3. Whoever sets up next door will keep the local bee (Buckfast).
4. Elsewhere in Ireland they are still trying to improve
   their AMM without success even after 20 years... Buckfast bees do not need "improvement", they are perfect.

Food for thought?
Regards
Reiner

this post is so contentious i believe it needs a little further dissection.

1, you may be one of the stock keepers in your area
2, You have been unsustainably bringing in your buckfast stock for 13 years, congratulations on your spending power.
3, whoever sets up next door will keep the bees they choose, I hope they spend some time thinking and follow their conscience with their choice.
4, Elsewhere in Ireland they have sustainably improved the indigenous bee with hard work, goodwill and community spirit and they continue to do so and their success has earned renown and is spreading, watch your doorstep beekeeping4me ! Good on them.

 

[For want of a better word]

MBC....

Certainly food for thought. I'm personally glad that many people do have thought and consideration for others and the environment they live in.

Some no doubt do not understand that the comment was supposed to be ironic ! !

 

[Norton]

There is now no such beast as a Buckfast bee.... after all the years since BA produced it ( as it MAY have been) due to the simple fact that there would have been such a level of introgression of into the one time gene pool, that was very small at its inception, that there is no possibility that it can have remained pure !

Hivemaker has plenty, just up the road from you!

 

[Stiffy]

'There's no such thing as the Buckfast bee'
Very true the Buckfast bee BA produced has been further improved so is unlikely to be the one he left. The whole point of his work and Buckfast bees was to produce a better bee and to continue to improve it. This work has been going on with great success by selective breeding and keeping good records in the UK and across Europe . Good breeders will provide pedigrees showing the lineage so that success can be repeated and mistakes avoided.
I have not heard of BIBBA or other minority breeding groups doing this but stand corrected if they do?
S


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Norton]

Most of the original lines are available from a breeder in Denmark. Not Brandstrup by the way.

 

[beekeeping4you]

Buckfast Pedigrees - Van Dyck

Most of the original lines are available from a breeder in Denmark. Not Brandstrup by the way.

And from several breeders in Germany, that's where we source our breeder queens.

http://www.beekeeping.ie/html/buckfast_pedigrees.html

Regards
Reiner

 

[beekeeping4you]

'There's no such thing as the Buckfast bee'
Very true the Buckfast bee BA produced has been further improved so is unlikely to be the one he left. The whole point of his work and Buckfast bees was to produce a better bee and to continue to improve it. This work has been going on with great success by selective breeding and keeping good records in the UK and across Europe . Good breeders will provide pedigrees showing the lineage so that success can be repeated and mistakes avoided.
I have not heard of BIBBA or other minority breeding groups doing this but stand corrected if they do?

Good post, Stiffy. There is nothing more to add.

Thank you!

Regards
Reiner

 

[islayhawk]

The following link should be of interest for many readers
http://www.scotsman.com/news/environment/colonsay-and-oronsay-to-become-honeybee-havens-1-3128377

islayhawk

 

[The Drone Ranger]

I was also that the British black bee was more adapted to the British weather. Is this correct or are most bees use to the British weather/climate?

I think it's fair to say hybrid bees have a bit of everything so should do well in almost any environment.

 

[For want of a better word]

Beekeeper Andrew Abrahams has campaigned for the islands to be recognised as a sanctuary for the species. He began keeping bees on Colonsay 35 years ago, but the island has an even longer tradition as a haven for the black bee. Its isolation and lack of an existing honeybee population saw it chosen as the site for an experimental breeding station for the native bee in 1941.

Pre DNA... let alone BA's Bucfast mongrel !

I personally have no problem with beekeeperers keeping Buckfast or for that matter any species of bee, endemic or not .... but it is very inconsiderate of anyone keeping any honeybee species, with the sole intention to interfere with a scientifically monitored breeding programme !

once again the Buckie beefanciers mob have hi-jacked a thread... all the OP asked was what sort of bee to keep!

I suggested local ones .. and the breath of wrath raged!

ADMIN... close thread or someone else is going to spend time on the naughty step!

 

[Norton]

OH I give up with you! Still can't figure out the species status.