'Black' bees and 'yellow' bees

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BeeOnMyWay

New Bee
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Messages
31
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0
Location
Saffron Walden
Hive Type
National
Number of Hives
2
I have just written a blog post about 'black' and 'yellow' varieties of Apis mellifera. I know that this is not a forum for selling things, but the blog is completely uncommercial (no ads, no spam). My reason for flagging it here is that I would welcome practical feedback from experienced beekeepers who might have more information on the subject. The blog can be found at www.beekeepingadvice.co.uk. Many thanks, Andy
 
The bees around us are mongrels, mostly of Italian (predominantly yellow) and Carniolan (more grey). Any Buckfast in the area will intoduce genes from other species in their parentage. 'Black bees' (or brown bees) generally refers to A m. mellifera, still around in the north but a rarity in the South since IoW disease.

The picture of 'black bees' on your blog look quite yellow to me- the bees around here are predominantly carniolan. I would guess that the bees around you are mainly Italian, with the ones you call yellow being purer than the others.
 
BOMW - I admire your enthusiasm but your blog is promoting some real old wives' tales. If you want to learn more about beekeeping I suggest buy yourself some bee books for Christmas or better still persuade others to give them to you as gifts. I won't recommend any one book as you need to read several and then try and work out where the common ground is.

But as a starter, there is simply no truth in the idea that nasty bees collect more honey - except if they are robbing it from your hives! There are docile bees which are good foragers and nasty bees which are good foragers and of course bees with the opposite characteristics. Defensiveness, which is the polite name given to the habit of some bees to sting you with impunity, can be bred out of any strain of bees by selection of queens and ideally selection of drones, although that is more difficult. Part of the selection process can also ensure the bees also retain the other characteristics you want - including foraging and disease resistance.

Colour of bees likewise has no relation to the bees industriousness. I have seen an image of a hive in Ireland with native AMM bees which had about 12 supers on it and the bees themselves were legendary for their quietness - the beekeeper was Michael Mac Giolla Coda - who is worth Googling as a starting point if you want to learn more about AMMs. But you will also hear horror stories of others with AMMs who gave them up because of the bees' behaviour.

However, as already mentioned, given where you live you can forget AMMs unless you want (and are able) to buy new AMM queens every time you need one, 'cos you won't raise them yourself unless you resort to artificial insemination.

There is endless discussion on what an AMM should look like and how to identify it but as an illustration of just how black they are see the image below.

I hope you won't write up my feedback as another mauling by this Forum, but the term Black Bee has a very specific meaning in beekeeping circles. Beekeeping is full of ideas which have no real basis of fact and yet which keep getting repeated thus giving the ideas a new lease of life.

I haven't read all your blog but I couldn't help noticing you painted one of your hives with Sadolin Classic Wood Protection. I don't use wooden hives but if I did I am not sure I would use this stuff. If you look it up on the Sadolin website you can download a safty data sheet on it. These documents always read alarmingly but it does say it contains 10% - 30% Naptha which at first made me think of mothballs, but they are made from naphthalene, which is a different stuff. Naptha is widely used in the petro-chemical industry and is also the main ingredient of some lighter fluids. I guess it is there as a solvent so providing the hives were well aired before the bees were added you should have been OK but the recommended Cuprinol clear has less than 3% Naptha. I offer this as you did ask in your blog for comment.
 
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It is so simple.

- mellifera mellifera have moved to all continents by British, but commercial beekeepers do not use it any more

- Italian is the most popular

- during couple of decades Carniola has become favoured

- Italian and Carniolan are very near genetically

good yields depend on good pastures, how much is nectar in flowers and how near bees can collect it. It has nothing to do with angry bees.

In Africa there are - is it 12 - different mellifera races which do not exist in Europa.
 
Colour of your bees is not a reliable method to determine what subspecies of Apis you have. I like to refer to my colonies as native dark bees and not black bees as Apis carniola are also dark in colour. You need to do further tests to determine how pure or hybridised your bees are. This can be quickly done by wing morphometry. wing morphometry is only one characteristic you need to look at a few other measurements and traits.
For docility this can be bred into your bees by careful selection when breeding from your bees. You can still however get agressivness showing up. This is more likely when near pure beeds of bees mate e.g. Amm x Carniolan This is due to the genetic makeup of the bee. Apis mellifera melliferais genetically different from Apis Lingustica and Apis carnica They are on different genetic branches of the tree when they moved out of Africa into Europe. I also agree that agressive bees are not necessary more productive, however they are more difficult to work with, therefore require more of your time. It is best just to breed out the agressivness in the first place
 
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It is easier to nurse 2 lazy hives than one good but agressive hives.

There are too highly agressive hives which are small and practically do not brong honey.

Perhaps you remember better the 7 box hive which give you hits during whole hour compared to two box hive, which does not tease you so long.
 
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It is easier to nurse 2 lazy hives than one good but agressive hives.

There are too highly agressive hives which are small and practically do not brong honey.

Perhaps you remember better the 7 box hive which give you hits during whole hour compared to two box hive, which does not tease you so long.

Finman, have you thought of writing Haiku poetry?

not worthy
 
I have just written a blog post about 'black' and 'yellow' varieties of Apis mellifera. I know that this is not a forum for selling things, but the blog is completely uncommercial (no ads, no spam). My reason for flagging it here is that I would welcome practical feedback from experienced beekeepers who might have more information on the subject. The blog can be found at www.beekeepingadvice.co.uk. Many thanks, Andy

Love yer blog, keep it up and keep listening to others. :)
 
Love yer blog, keep it up and keep listening to others. :)


Me too. As another new beekeer it's good to read of others in the same boat. Doubtless from time to time you'll find yourself the subject of the gentle criticism for which this forum is renowned, but don't take it to heart. It's well meant and helpful (usually).
 
Rooftops - the high Naptha content of the sadolin may help to deter robbers!!!!!

(seriously - italian beeks use it on hive porches. although without allowing to contaminate the wood).
 
I really appreciate the feedback, and the information on different sub-species. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm the first to recognise that I have a lot of learning ahead of me and, yes, beekeeping books feature heavily on my Christmas present wish list! I take the point about being fast and loose with terminology. When I said 'black' bees I simply meant darker than my own. Nor was I even pretending to offer a scientific opinion on their productivity. I was merely passing on what I have observed and giving vent to bee (or more accurately, honey) envy. It's meant to be funny, guys! Neverthless, as I say, I'm genuinely grateful for the advice. I probably will take a stab at queen rearing next year, and will certainly be following forum advice very carefully on the subject.
Andy
Diary of a Nervous Beekeeper
 
Naptha... that is the stuff moth balls are made from... but I am sure I would not like to meet the moth!!


I keep New Zealand bees......


Black and Yellow striped ones.. although like the zebra I am not sure if they are black with yellow stripes or yellow with black stripes !

OMG now some beekiebore will come along and pompously state ... there is no such thing as a New Zealand bee.....
Try telling my kids there is no such thing as Santa !

Wassail!
 
I really appreciate the feedback, and the information on different sub-species.


That is not enough. Inside each "race" there are tens of strains. Who knows the backround of these all queens. And actually you do not even need that knowledge. You have something in your hive and next you have something else.

If you have 20 hives, you have opportunity to compare different strains.
 
icanhopit: NO. They are not the same.

Naphtha normally refers to a number of flammable liquid mixtures of hydrocarbons, i.e., a component of natural gas condensate or a distillation product from petroleum, coal tar or peat boiling in a certain range and containing certain hydrocarbons. It is a broad term covering among the lightest and most volatile fractions of the liquid hydrocarbons in petroleum. Naphtha is a colorless to reddish-brown volatile aromatic liquid, very similar to gasoline.

Naphthalene is an organic compound with formula C10H8. It is a white crystalline solid with a characteristic odor that is detectable at concentrations as low as 0.08 ppm by mass. As an aromatic hydrocarbon, naphthalene's structure consists of a fused pair of benzene rings. It is best known as the main ingredient of traditional mothballs.
 
I keep New Zealand bees......

OMG now some beekiebore will come along and pompously state ... there is no such thing as a New Zealand bee.....
Try telling my kids there is no such thing as Santa !

Wassail!

That would be me then. Not sure why it's pompous to state a simple fact about bees on a bee forum, but there you go.

I saw Santa yesterday in a garden centre, but I've never seen honey from NZ bees.

Seen plenty from European bees kept in NZ though.
 
Naphthalene ... best known as the main ingredient of traditional mothballs.

And - I seem to remember from O level chemistry - a great example of super-cooling a liquid to a meta-stable state, from which it can then be made to re-crystallise very quickly by throwing in a small solid crystal of Naphthalene

Presumably this is just the same as honey, only faster?
 

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