Behaviour variations between large & small colonies

[oxnatbees]

I saw a post by an American beekeeper on another forum where he commented that a nucleus is generally very docile, but once it has grown to a large colony you will often need a full suit to approach it. He reckoned it may be because large colonies can afford to lose workers in a fight.

Is this generally true? And are there other interestingdifferences between large / small colony behaviour?

 

[B+.]

Is this generally true? And are there other interestingdifferences between large / small colony behaviour?

A nucleus has mostly young nurse bees to look after the brood. A full colony will have a cross-section of different ages constrained by the time of year/available forage.
Clearly, a full colony will have more of the older forager bees and it is these that are likely to be more aggressive rather than the younger bees. So, yes. It makes sense.

 

[Ian123]

I saw a post by an American beekeeper on another forum where he commented that a nucleus is generally very docile, but once it has grown to a large colony you will often need a full suit to approach it. He reckoned it may be because large colonies can afford to lose workers in a fight.

Is this generally true? And are there other interestingdifferences between large / small colony behaviour?

Yes it’s true, nucs will often give you an idea of future temperament but you could compare a puppy to a full size Rottweiler.

 

[B+.]

Yes it’s true, nucs will often give you an idea of future temperament but you could compare a puppy to a full size Rottweiler.

A couple of things occur to me:

1. If a new queen has been introduced to a nuc, the workers will have been supplied by another colony (i.e. a different queen) so probably have no genetic link to the new queen. Therefore, you can't use the workers behaviour as any indication of the way the queens own workers will behave once they become foragers.

2. If the colony has over-wintered in a nuc, the workers provided to get the nuc started should all be dead and the queens own progeny should be available for assessment. However, this is only a nuc. The behaviour it expresses will be at a much lower level than a full colony and it may take a lot of experience to assess it properly, unless its behaviour is so bad that you don't want it anyway. If the queen was open mated, she will have sperm from a number of drones mixed in her spermatheca. There will be fewer workers from any given line in a nuc than there would be in a full colony so the expression of any aggressive/passive trait may be subdued. Again, this would probably take a very experienced assessor to be sensitive to the subtleties expressed by a nuc.

I would rather assess the performance of a full colony over a whole season than make a judgement based on such limited information. Often a colony can behave differently in different weather conditions. You have to give it time to show this...and by then, it will have grown into a full colony anyway.

 

[ericbeaumont]

nucs will often give you an idea of future temperament

The behaviour it expresses will be at a much lower level than a full colony...There will be fewer workers from any given line in a nuc than there would be in a full colony so the expression of any aggressive/passive trait may be subdued.

I've worked on two rules of thumb: that the temper of a nuc should not be assessed until it has grown to a colony, and that the Q of a defensive nuc is very likely for the chop. Your explanation makes sense, B+.

 

[Michael Palmer]

A number of times I've worked bees in several locations in Mexico. All africanized genes. All worked in the off-season, when the colonies weren't at full strength. Really no issues with temper. Didn't ever wear gloves. Took off the space suit they dressed me in...so hot I neared a heat stroke. If these apiaries had been at full strength, I believe the outcome would have been a different story.

 

[jeff33]

It is easy for us to also disturb the natural balance of a full strength hive and blaming an open mated queen for aggressive traits. If you deplete a hive of young nurse bees by removing too many brood frames for nucs or other reasons you generally end-up with mostly older worker bees who tend to be more feisty. There is no point assessing the performance of such colony afterwards.

 

[Poly Hive]

There is also the matter of colony morale. a small unit feels insecure I believe and after some time when it has matured and gained confidence then if the issue is there beware....

PH

 

[beeno]

I've worked on two rules of thumb: that the temper of a nuc should not be assessed until it has grown to a colony, and that the Q of a defensive nuc is very likely for the chop. Your explanation makes sense, B+.

I had a nuc where as soon as you took off the crown board they all welled out. My thought, if you are like this in a nuc I certainly do not want you in a large colony - dispatched.

 

[jeff33]

There is also the matter of colony morale. a small unit feels insecure I believe and after some time when it has matured and gained confidence then if the issue is there beware....

Sounds like teenagers to me...

 

[Antipodes]

I've heard some beekeepers here wait sometime into the cooler autumn before robbing the leatherwood, to allow the overall numbers of bees/defensive bees to reduce down. They really build up on that flower and seemed very powerful and stroppy when I was last there.

I'm not sure if others use that strategy elsewhere in the world on another nectar source? Were you robbing the hives in Mexico Michael P?

 

[Hebeegeebee]

, and that the Q of a defensive nuc is very likely for the chop. .

Agreed!

 

[oxnatbees]

Fascinating and informative replies, thank you.

Re: leatherwood, I have heard people say that bees which only have access to Oil Seed Rape for a long time get grumpy. Others say a protracted period of any monofloral crop makes them grumpy.

 

[B+.]

I have heard people say that bees which only have access to Oil Seed Rape for a long time get grumpy. Others say a protracted period of any monofloral crop makes them grumpy.

I've had bees so close to osr that they didn't need to fly. They could walk to it. Yet, I don't see any aggression. I think genetics plays a bigger role than diet in this case.

 

[Antipodes]

Interesting thoughts ......

Last time, each hive I robbed seemed to stir the other colonies into preemptive strikes. I started with the weakest hive but perhaps should have gone the other way.

I had so many angry bees down my gumboots (wellingtons) that when I took them off my wife suggested I had enough in each boot to start a new colony!

Waiting two weeks after the last honey has come in seems to be one suggestion, by which time perhaps many of the older worker bees have died.