Bees on crown board - silly ?

[jimbeekeeper]

personal choice, I see no issue with them open.

So try it with mesh over the holes - after all it will only affect them just once in a hundred inspections. When they have propolised the mesh ask yourself the question: Why did they do that?

I am well aware of them propolising over mesh, than you very much!

So why then do they choose not to close down the holes when it is documented of them restricting entrances?

 

[freethorpe bees]

Aren't the holes too big for them to close?

 

[Tom Bick]

PH yes I understand and I remember you mentioning some time ago that hives with omf no longer require top ventilation. This has stayed with me and makes good sense although my bees have never blocked the vents.

I on a personal front have made a couple of rooves with no top ventilation and built in insulation thus eliminating the cavity in the roof space and will see how they work.

Andrea that changes things adding supers wont stop swarming but all the same add one if you want to.

 

[Beezy]

I help out a local beek with a number of hives, and she leaves the holes open as she says that she finds it easier to see if the bees need more space, as they start to cluster in the roof space. They don't appear to attempt to propolise the holes.

 

[freethorpe bees]

Because they are too big! Am I missing something?

 

[TBRNoTB]

Get real. If you want to leave the holes open COVER THEM WITH SOME MESH to contain the bees. You will soon see whether the bees want that extra ventilation or not.

BEES SHOULD NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE ROOF SPACE. SIMPLE. FULL STOP.

When will new beeks ever learn if they are told such rubbish?

Too bl**dy late when the bees are crowding in the roof! They are by then, far too overcrowded!

I learned that ten years ago. The information is now freely available on the net. I, too, have had the roof ventilators (not the crownboard) closed completely by the bees.

Then in the winter, when these same beeks put matchsicks under the crownboard (and think they are giving top ventilation), they are oblivious to the fact that the bees were streets ahead of them and have already sealed them, leaving a great big roof area for heat loss but not enough ventilation. Ha Ha.

Just think about it. It should make sense even to the average beek.

RAB

And he unfortunately reverts to type! Ha Ha. Just think about it. It's obvious even to the average beek I suppose!

 

[Gardenbees]

As a humble average beek (ha!) I have to say that my bees agree with Poly Hive's bees: they really don't like overhead ventilation. I think it's because they can't easily control temperature when there's a chimney effect of air coming in the bottom of the hive and whooshing straight out the top. I put a piece of plywood over the crownboard hole and they quickly goo it into place.

I really like the open mesh floors. All that worry about overheating, crud building up in winter etc. is dealt with in a way which seems to really suit the bees. The thing about the OMF is that it not only provides plenty of ventilation, it also enables a circulation of air around the hive if the roof is closed. The bees control this closely by speeding up the air throughput by fanning, or in extreme cases by propolising the floor. Mine are VERY generous with the propolis and goo up quite large areas of the mesh, then un-goo it when they feel like it. If the hot air goes out of a large hole in the roof then I suppose they don't have so much control.

Given that the OP is writing about a hive with a solid floor, I wouldn't like to judge what my bees would do under the circumstances. I would, however, definitely put another super on if there's any doubt about overcrowding. May has only just begun, and with this warm weather and a spot of rain they shouldn't be short of nectar flow to store. If they ain't full now they soon may be: and the wild comb and/or queen cells will start appearing.

 

[TBRNoTB]

Get real. If you want to leave the holes open COVER THEM WITH SOME MESH to contain the bees. You will soon see whether the bees want that extra ventilation or not.

BEES SHOULD NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE ROOF SPACE. SIMPLE. FULL STOP.

When will new beeks ever learn if they are told such rubbish?

Too bl**dy late when the bees are crowding in the roof! They are by then, far too overcrowded!

I learned that ten years ago. The information is now freely available on the net. I, too, have had the roof ventilators (not the crownboard) closed completely by the bees.

Then in the winter, when these same beeks put matchsicks under the crownboard (and think they are giving top ventilation), they are oblivious to the fact that the bees were streets ahead of them and have already sealed them, leaving a great big roof area for heat loss but not enough ventilation. Ha Ha.

Just think about it. It should make sense even to the average beek.

RAB

This is slightly off thread I know, sorry. RAB when you are pottering around the parade ring on your little red tractor, do you shout or even extra bold shout at the announcer because he doesn't know every last fact about Oliver Tractors? if you don't, why do it here?

 

[AndreaW]

If they ain't full now they soon may be: and the wild comb and/or queen cells will start appearing.

Define wild comb for me please - I did see a lot of bits of comb being built between the brood frames, wasn't sure why? Mainly at the top of frames -is this what they call brace comb?

If I do put another super on, given that I opened up the hive today and don't really want to mess about with them too much - could I just add one on top of the other supers tomorrow (going out to do one hive that I ran out of time for today) - or should I put it in beneath the other supers that are already being worked on?

So many questions, so little time........

Thanks everyone.

 

[susbees]

Wild comb is what the bees build "free style" if you give them a log or an empty hive. Beautiful structures.

Brace comb is how they try to cope with gaps bigger than bee space. Means often that the frames are too far apart.

Have these hives been checked over/treated for disease? Varroa?

 

[AndreaW]

Wild comb is what the bees build "free style" if you give them a log or an empty hive. Beautiful structures.

Brace comb is how they try to cope with gaps bigger than bee space. Means often that the frames are too far apart.

Have these hives been checked over/treated for disease? Varroa?

Varroa yes end of last year as far as I know. Okay thanks.

 

[Flatters]

Here are photos of wild comb. I made a mistake of leaving an two small ekes on after I finished with feeding fondant.

I am with the closed holes camp and only opening them when they are needed for feeding. I use Duct tape on both sides of the crown board although some brands don't stick very well.

 

[oliver90owner]

And he unfortunately reverts to type! Ha Ha. Just think about it. It's obvious even to the average beek I suppose!

It is fairly obvious that you are one who would not find it at all obvious.

 

[oliver90owner]

she finds it easier to see if the bees need more space,

As I said earlier - too late by then, they are already overcrowded.

On another note - this is simply to make it easier for the beekeeper? Yeah right, never mind the bees, as long as it is easy for the beek.

Are these people beekeepers or just keepers of bees?

 

[AndreaW]

Lovely pictures thank you Flatters.

 

[tonybloke]

closed holes in C/B for my bees, they can then regulate their own temps.
here's what happens when mesh is tried over the holes ( not my hive, btw) http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=3909&stc=1&d=1304841914

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Yeah right, never mind the bees, as long as it is easy for the beek.

Are these people beekeepers or just keepers of bees?

Yes the whole point of beekeeping and its progression to the hanging frames.

Most things are for the convenience of the beekeeper, other wise forget about getting your honey in a simple way, opening the hive or even the simple fact of working at ground level as they naturally prefer the height of 10-15ft.

 

[Howsoonisnow]

How about colonies with a top and bottom entrance prospering better than ones with just the lower one?

People waste money and effort on providing top insulation during winter for their bees as they fail to understand how bees regulate their temperature.

 

[Gardenbees]

Define wild comb for me please - I did see a lot of bits of comb being built between the brood frames, wasn't sure why? Mainly at the top of frames -is this what they call brace comb?

Flatters' picture says it all: lovely, curvy bits of honeycomb will be liberally built in your roofspace according to the bees' own personal wishes if they have a nice hole in the crownboard and feel that they're out of space down below. It's not a disaster but it is inconvenient, and not least for the bees, because at some stage the wild comb will have to be removed, which can get messy. Whilst it can be used to tell when the bees are seriously short on space, I wouldn't personally want to rely on it as an indicator; there are other, earlier ways of telling.

Brace comb is technically used to brace a slab of comb against adjacent combs or against the walls of the hive; it's common, especially against the ends e.g. bracing a comb onto a dummy board etc. Mine do it a lot. It's how the bees secure their nest against jolts and comb damage. Burr comb is a layer of thicker comb on the surface of a comb face: they like to fill out all the available space, so you'll tend to get burrs on combs which aren't in the hive quite straight, leaving a wider gap along one side of the face. I really try to avoid this as it causes some hassle when trying to lift the frames out without rolling or squashing the bees, and unlike brace comb it's hard to just trim away.

I see that the Forum hive is a little hot today; something to do with opening up a thread during thundery weather I expect. If the somewhat inconclusive replies have left you uncertain, just go back and ask the real experts: your bees! If you try a few different approaches they will soon make it clear who they agree with!

 

[Poly Hive]

Bees prefer warmth above them.

I know this from reading the research over many years, from practical experience and the experiments with thermocouples at Craibstone.

So please do not try and tell me I have no understanding of how bees regulate temperature or over winter.

Esp with no bees to lay claim to and a general location of UK.

PH