Bees chucking out brood?

[user 20297]

Thanks. I'm fairly resigned to losing this colony but have five other nucs over wintering that had the same treatments so was thinking a spring treatment would be useful for those. Sorry didn't make that clear .
Won't use apistan again lesson learned.

I'll refer you to this relatively recent discussion..... @Boston Bees is the sage one on this. That thread also shows that you need to choose carefully from whom you take advice:
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/supers-and-varroa-treatment.51424/#post-787559
The makers of the product do accept that there is a problem with resistance, but they also offer what sounds like constructive advice on how to manoevre around this:

https://www.vita-europe.com/beehealth/products/apistan/#delay

 

[Boston Bees]

Thanks. I'm fairly resigned to losing this colony but have five other nucs over wintering that had the same treatments so was thinking a spring treatment would be useful for those. Sorry didn't make that clear .
Won't use apistan again lesson learned.

Gotcha!

In that case, Apivar inserted during first inspection would be a good idea (unless you can vape, in which case that's an option too at that time).

 

[Boston Bees]

PS: I suspect Apistan often works fine - I am sure it isn't completely useless in all circumstances. The guy from Norfolk Honey did a video on using it, and he's sensible. And it may actually have delivered a high kill-rate on your varroa in September (though if it was put in in late September that is a bit late). But it's hit and miss due to resistance, so not worth the risk that your varroa happen to be resistant to it.

 

[BigAshW]

PS: I suspect Apistan often works fine - I am sure it isn't completely useless in all circumstances. The guy from Norfolk Honey did a video on using it, and he's sensible. And it may actually have delivered a high kill-rate on your varroa in September (though if it was put in in late September that is a bit late). But it's hit and miss due to resistance, so not worth the risk that your varroa happen to be resistant to it.

Have checked my records. Strips actually went in 28/8/21.

 

[madasafish]

Have checked my records. Strips actually went in 28/8/21.

That date is fine - especially in Essex.

 

[Boston Bees]

Have checked my records. Strips actually went in 28/8/21.

Perfect. Pretty much exactly when I put Apivar in

 

[Erichalfbee]

So. Leave them till a warm spell in March and have a look ?

 

[masterBK]

If a beekeeper hasn't used Apistan for 4 years or more years you will find that resistance falls considerably and can then be used effectively again for a year. During the time you don't use it natural selection works against the resistance genesin the mite and favours normal susceptibility . This concept is not new and was seen in flies and opther pests when DDT was withdrawn. I use apistan every 4 years using other treatments in the intervening years. I do monitor mite levels and was part of a study on apistan resistance funded by the Co-op some years ago run by Dr David Aston using the Beltsville test.

 

[Moobee]

I'll refer you to this relatively recent discussion..... @Boston Bees is the sage one on this. That thread also shows that you need to choose carefully from whom you take advice:
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/supers-and-varroa-treatment.51424/#post-787559
The makers of the product do accept that there is a problem with resistance, but they also offer what sounds like constructive advice on how to manoevre around this:

https://www.vita-europe.com/beehealth/products/apistan/#delay

But you would still have to buy it to see if you have resistant mites…. good marketing trick

 

[Arfermo]

BigAshW trickling? Surely he should have got round to sublimation by now with 10 hives. Only ever used Apiguard in autumn (usually later than recommended without any repercussions) and oxalic sublimation after Xmas and have never had varroa problems. Lost 2 colonies in the last 13 years, probably starvation - my fault. KISS applies.

 

[Finman]

But you would still have to buy it to see if you have resistant mites…. good marketing trick

Apistan resistant mites have been in Britain 20 years. Difficult to twist jokes from that any more.

 

[Cuckmere couple]

My treatment this year for nucs was apistan in September and an OA trickle in december.

View attachment 29988View attachment 29989View attachment 29990

Girls are flying today. A few more corpses cleared out as well.

I put a slab of fondant on top of the frames a while back. Will see if they need another.

have you just removed the mouse guard? may also have been clogged up behind it

 

[BigAshW]

BigAshW trickling? Surely he should have got round to sublimation by now with 10 hives. Only ever used Apiguard in autumn (usually later than recommended without any repercussions) and oxalic sublimation after Xmas and have never had varroa problems. Lost 2 colonies in the last 13 years, probably starvation - my fault. KISS applies.

From what I've read trickling is just as effective and it takes about the same time as vaping plus has the bonus of not requiring as much ppe.

I use apiguard on my main colonies but decided to go with strips for convenience in the poly nucs.

 

[Erichalfbee]

From what I've read trickling is just as effective and it takes about the same time as vaping plus has the bonus of not requiring as much ppe.

But you can do it only once ( unless you are Finman )

 

[oliver90owner]

Apistan is perfectly able to kill mites. The problem surrounds the local beekeepers who use it every year or even if some of them do. It is ( or should be) well known that fluvalinate use can lead to resistant mites. I would only consider it if in an emergency (without facilities to sublimate oxalic a

The mite resistance decays quite quickly, but with any risk of importing mites form nearby colonies, for this group of varroicides steering clear is the very best advice. This, as has been shown on this thread, has been known for getting on for two decades and still people have not heard of it, have ignored it, or have been ill-advised.

Apigaurd, likewise, is not all it claims to be - in our climate. If you check their testing results they (always used to) refer to results from Italy or Spain. It may have changed, but somehow I have my doubts.

People just read the test results and think no further. Mostly, they only have themselves to blame when things go wrong.

 

[Finman]

But you can do it only once ( unless you are Finman )

In Finland we have long winter, and many here do trikling twice. In November and in Marsh.

 

[Finman]

Apigaurd, likewise, is not all it claims to be - in our climate. If you check their testing results they (always used to) refer to results from Italy or Spain. It may have changed, but somehow I have my doubts.

Apiguard is thymol medicine. It works if day temp is over 15C.

20 years ago it was a varroa group which tested thymol, formic acid and oxalic acid during 3 years. Recommendations are used still today. Members were for example from Finland, Sweden, Germany and Denmark.
UK did not participated to the group.

One dose to one box and two doses to douple box hive


Thymol leaves strong odor inside the hive, and you cannot use it in Spring, neither in yield period.

 

[Moobee]

Apistan resistant mites have been in Britain 20 years. Difficult to twist jokes from that any more.

Not been keeping bees long enough to know that!

 

[oliver90owner]

Not been keeping bees long enough to know that!

Says it all, really?

 

[Into the lions den]

Just spotted this thread. A lot of round the houses stuff but not much attention paid to Finman's first post.
99% certain you have a drone layer and that is the root cause of your issues.
I think the technical term is 'gubbed' (probably).

Even attempting to save it is less effective than just taking the loss on the chin and make a fresh one up from good stock in spring/summer.

(Not to be read into that that I always take my own advice............I have wasted countless time and money feeling sorry for dinks and attempting to salvage something. I am a slow learner.)