Bees chucking out brood?

[BigAshW]

Noticed this in front of one of my poly nucs today.

They had a trickle treatment 19/12/21 and a slab of fondant popped on. Colony was a good size going into winter with a fresh queen, (Northumberland virgin locally mated in June).

Is this anything to be worried about?

 

[madasafish]

Usually a sign of lack of food.
Or disease.

Chucking out brood may mean chilled .

Are there lots of bees? Could be a weak hive incapable of keeping brood warm.

Any signs of varroa?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Some dead old bees thrown out and some drone pupae.
You’ve fed them. Can they access the fondant. Are they light? Did you treat in the autumn?
Spring will tell. You can’t do anything about it just now anyway.
I would just sit tight and see

 

[pargyle]

Sometimes the bees are a bit optimistic and start brooding a little early - those are drone larvae and they tend to be found on the extremities of the brood nest - they will concentrate on keeping the worker brood warm in the cluster and I suspect that the drone brood may have got chilled with the recent cold snap. Few dead bees not unusual ~ just having a clear out when they can. It's a good sign that they are clearing stuff out - means the colony is still active and have workers available for housekeeping. As long as they have stores or food available I would not worry as there's nowt you can do about it at present anyway .... make sure they have food available and leave them to it.

 

[Finman]

Those all are drone brood and they have been drawn from capped cells.

Bad sign, if the hive has drone brood in January.

I bet unmated queen there.

 

[BigAshW]

My treatment this year for nucs was apistan in September and an OA trickle in december.



Girls are flying today. A few more corpses cleared out as well.

I put a slab of fondant on top of the frames a while back. Will see if they need another.

 

[BigAshW]

This was a two frame nuc I made up with a virgin queen in June. She was certainly mated and laying well going into winter, however I guess she could have failed over the last couple of months .

 

[Finman]

This was a two frame nuc I made up with a virgin queen in June. She was certainly mated and laying well going into winter, however I guess she could have failed over the last couple of months .

It is possible, that bees have reared a new queen in autumn. Nothing odd in that. Open the hive and you see what is going on there. Perhaps there are lots of emerged drones. Those brood are near emerging.

 

[Michael Palmer]

In my opinion...The first treatment (September) was most likely too late in the season. And with a product that hasn't worked in years. By the time you used the OA drizzle was too late in a colony with significant mite load.

Did you ever sample the mite population in the hive? If so, when and with what method?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Apistan? or Apivar....lots of people get them confused.
Apistan doesn't work

 

[BigAshW]

Apistan

Apistan? or Apivar....lots of people get them confused.
Apistan doesn't work

Apistan strips.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Oh dear. Then Varroa is likely your problem. I suppose you didn't check the mite drop after your oxalic?

 

[BigAshW]

In my opinion...The first treatment (September) was most likely too late in the season. And with a product that hasn't worked in years. By the time you used the OA drizzle was too late in a colony with significant mite load.

Did you ever sample the mite population in the hive? If so, when and with what method?

No I didn't do test any of the nucs.

 

[BigAshW]

Oh dear. Then Varroa is likely your problem. I suppose you didn't check the mite drop after your oxalic?

So if you are saying that apistan now has zero effect why are suppliers still selling this product?

 

[pargyle]

So if you are saying that apistan now has zero effect why are suppliers still selling this product?

Why do they still sell lots of things for beekeepers that don't work - because some beekeepers are ill-informed and still buy them ! No offence intended but it has been known for quite a time that Varroa have built up a resistance to Apistan. Even the people who sell it ...

https://www.vita-europe.com/beehealth/products/apistan/

 

[BigAshW]

Oh well. Every day is a school day. Will do better next time.

 

[Finman]

In the year 2003 I lost 60% out of my hives, because my mites had become apistan resistant. About 20 years ago.

 

[BigAshW]

Ok so I'm now wondering if an early spring treatment with apivar strips is worth considering since it says it's not temperature dependent?

 

[Boston Bees]

I am not entirely clear why people think that a high varroa load leads to the production of drones in January?

A failed queen or laying workers does that, certainly. I suspect that when you open this hive that is what you will find, rendering spring treatment choices irrelevant.

But the warnings against Apistan are certainly valid.

 

[BigAshW]

I am not entirely clear why people think that a high varroa load leads to the production of drones in January?

A failed queen or laying workers does that, certainly. I suspect that when you open this hive that is what you will find, rendering spring treatment choices irrelevant.

But the warnings against Apistan are certainly valid.

Thanks. I'm fairly resigned to losing this colony but have five other nucs over wintering that had the same treatments so was thinking a spring treatment would be useful for those. Sorry didn't make that clear .
Won't use apistan again lesson learned.