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Curly green finger's

If you think you know all, you actually know nowt!
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Hi, I’ve been asked to set up some training days privately, how much should I charge per person
And how would you schedule the day, it’s possible this will include a meal at our pub.
Training would be limited to 6 people

Thanks
Mark
Would anyone on here be interested ?
 
Well look at what a daily rate is for getting expert jobs done - £200 no problem. Local builder told me a lorry driver can ask £40 - £50k per annum. Six people £35 per head and an extra £10 if you are including a lunch. IMHO I wouldn't think that would be unreasonable for expert training,
 
Insurance and a risk assessment. Dont forget those.
:iagree: BBKA PLI won't cover you for a commercial enterprise such as this and it will have to be a full blown RA to satisfy any insurer. As well as having a current first aid certificate.
 
Insurance and a risk assessment. Dont forget those.
And if you are doing it properly (and there are quite a few who already offer very good taster days - and a LOT that don't and give very little for a lot of money)... your should factor in some 'classroom' time before the 'hands on' at the apiary. You will need somewhere to provide the 'classroom' sesssion, you will need some professional media to present to your audience, equipment to demonstrate, a large selection of suits to fit people. To be a credible 'trainer' you need to demonstrate that you have all the necessary knowledge and perhaps, at least, some minor qualifications or many years of beekeeping behind you.

You need to consider what happens if someone gets stung and the worst case scenario if they react badly to a sting. how can you cope with that if there is just you running the event - you really need two people.

There is a lot to consider - it's not going to be a Titan Sub disaster if it all goes belly up but if you don't have all the ducks in a row and ignore basic health and safety concerns then it's a classic demonstration of someone acting in a cavalier and irresponsible manner.

Or, there again, you could wing it, charge at a price that people are not going to complain too much when they feel ripped off and get them pissed in the pub at lunchtime so they don't remember what a dreadfully inadequate 'training' day it was !

Perhaps, in a nutshell, fools rush in where angels fear to tread ?
 
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First Aid certification sounds a bit OTT, but perhaps you should get them to sign a disclaimer against being stung. Perhaps have an epipen handy in case someone is allergic. There is a lady in Brentford who does taster classes, I think her website was “hen corner” a google search will find her. You could ask her for advice.l
 
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Why?

And this isn't OTT? especially if the administrator hasn't a clue about first aid.
Besides bee stings, what other injuries would you expect? It’s not mountaineering or free-fall parachuting.
 
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Besides bee stings, what other injuries would you expect? It’s not mountaineering or free-fall parachuting.
trips, falls, burns finger jams, cuts, even a badly handled hive tool can cause some damage, heart attacks can happen without warning, the list goes on and on and a person would have to be pretty naive to think people do not have accidents however safe the environment - and an apiary in the open, in a field is certainly not that. Roaming animals even fences can be a hazard - snagging, tripping cuts and puncture wounds. How do people arrive there? usually by car - that's another hazard to take into account. And if it's in the sticks there is the chance of conflict with quad bikes and towed trailers, but then, some people think that vehicles of that kind are rare in the countryside :icon_204-2:
And of course if you are not slap bang in the middle of a city, you also have to consider ambulance response times, and care for the casualty if the wait is considerable.
Only a reckless fool would not think of contingencies such as this.
 
trips, falls, burns finger jams, cuts, even a badly handled hive tool can cause some damage, heart attacks can happen without warning, the list goes on and on and a person would have to be pretty naive to think people do not have accidents however safe the environment - and an apiary in the open, in a field is certainly not that. Roaming animals even fences can be a hazard - snagging, tripping cuts and puncture wounds. How do people arrive there? usually by car - that's another hazard to take into account. And if it's in the sticks there is the chance of conflict with quad bikes and towed trailers, but then, some people think that vehicles of that kind are rare in the countryside :icon_204-2:
And of course if you are not slap bang in the middle of a city, you also have to consider ambulance response times, and care for the casualty if the wait is considerable.
Only a reckless fool would not think of contingencies such as this.
Whatever have you been smoking today?
 
Whatever have you been smoking today?
well if you genuinely think that people don't get hurt (even if only slightly) and that someone who is organising an event should not be prepared for this then I'm afraid it's not me that's living in cuckoo land, but I suppose what else should I expect.
 
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well if you genuinely think that people don't get hurt (even if only slightly) and that someone who is organising an event should not be prepared for this then I'm afraid it's not me that's living in cuckoo land, but I suppose what else should I expect.
I suppose you should expect nothing else.
 
Putting your head in the sand and thinking that nothing will go wrong is a recipe for disaster. Perhaps nothing will ever go wrong and no one will be injured or fall ill but on the other hand it might go badly wrong and things could get very messy. I would search out some proper advice before I started to take payment from people but if you decide to go ahead and start before being clear about possible problems occurring its best to learn to carry out each session with your fingers crossed. Good luck anyway, just be careful that you don't face problems which you haven't prepared for.
 
Putting your head in the sand and thinking that nothing will go wrong is a recipe for disaster. Perhaps nothing will ever go wrong and no one will be injured or fall ill but on the other hand it might go badly wrong and things could get very messy. I would search out some proper advice before I started to take payment from people but if you decide to go ahead and start before being clear about possible problems occurring its best to learn to carry out each session with your fingers crossed. Good luck anyway, just be careful that you don't face problems which you haven't prepared for.
And that .... is the nub of the problem.

As soon as you take money from someone for a service you are facing potential prosecution by the HSE if anything results in a casualty or an accident, at the very least you could be sued by the person affected ... You are the responsible person and you will have to produce evidence that you have taken every precaution to prevent the 'accident' and that you were fully qualified in the first instance, in every respect, to manage the situation.

I know, I've stood accused in court, having had a fatality happen in my company, facing charges of duty of care to my employee and the public. We had all our ducks in a row - well documented, risk assessed, trained people with recorded training records, good equipment, everything tidy and planned with method statements in place - I thought we were watertight in terms of H & S. Two employees did something that was unplanned and unnecessary without telling us or seeking advice .. and fell as a result one of them died. By the surviving crew's admission - they knew that they should not have done it. The HSE view - I didn't manage the situation sufficiently to prevent the accident - my barristers view - you can't win, plead guilty and seek leniency and mitigation. We got off lightly, the Judge accepted that we had done everything possible to avoid the accident but it happned and I was responsible - Result - £10,000 fine and £5000 costs. I could have gone to prison for corporate manslaughter if the HSE were to be believed.

Tread very carefully when you charge people for a service in which they are involved because YOU are responsible for THEIR actions no matter how stupid they may be. The HSE are one of the few prosecuting agencies where you have to PROVE you did everything possible ... and you will rarely be able to prove that. Forget hiding behind a 'waiver' .. frankly they don't hold water - unless the person signing the waiver was fully aware of all the circumstances and in a capacity that they understood - not worth the paper they are written on.

Beekeeping is not inherently dangerous but JBM's list of potential accidents looking for somewhere to happen is in no way scaremongering or exhaustive ... it's considering all the risks.
 
My local allotments - where I help with beekeeping - have a qualified First Aider on call.
 
And that .... is the nub of the problem.

As soon as you take money from someone for a service you are facing potential prosecution by the HSE if anything results in a casualty or an accident, at the very least you could be sued by the person affected ... You are the responsible person and you will have to produce evidence that you have taken every precaution to prevent the 'accident' and that you were fully qualified in the first instance, in every respect, to manage the situation.

I know, I've stood accused in court, having had a fatality happen in my company, facing charges of duty of care to my employee and the public. We had all our ducks in a row - well documented, risk assessed, trained people with recorded training records, good equipment, everything tidy and planned with method statements in place - I thought we were watertight in terms of H & S. Two employees did something that was unplanned and unnecessary without telling us or seeking advice .. and fell as a result one of them died. By the surviving crew's admission - they knew that they should not have done it. The HSE view - I didn't manage the situation sufficiently to prevent the accident - my barristers view - you can't win, plead guilty and seek leniency and mitigation. We got off lightly, the Judge accepted that we had done everything possible to avoid the accident but it happned and I was responsible - Result - £10,000 fine and £5000 costs. I could have gone to prison for corporate manslaughter if the HSE were to be believed.

Tread very carefully when you charge people for a service in which they are involved because YOU are responsible for THEIR actions no matter how stupid they may be. The HSE are one of the few prosecuting agencies where you have to PROVE you did everything possible ... and you will rarely be able to prove that. Forget hiding behind a 'waiver' .. frankly they don't hold water - unless the person signing the waiver was fully aware of all the circumstances and in a capacity that they understood - not worth the paper they are written on.

Beekeeping is not inherently dangerous but JBM's list of potential accidents looking for somewhere to happen is in no way scaremongering or exhaustive ... it's considering all the risks.
I agree, I was interviewed under caution when a multi storey car park collapsed at 3am one morning and we had carried out work on it 12 months before.
We had all the paperwork to prove our innocence but HSE’s powers are extensive.
 
:iagree: BBKA PLI won't cover you for a commercial enterprise such as this and it will have to be a full blown RA to satisfy any insurer. As well as having a current first aid certificate.
Current legislation takes all the joy out of living, not to mention doubling and tripling costs of work done by tradesmen or employees. I'm glad I experienced life before the 1970s when I could look at a task, judge how best to do it and use my own nous there and then.
 

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