Beehaus Advice

[Simplywords]

I am a newly novice, having just completed a 10 week beekeeping course. As some of you may recall, I (and husband) bought a second hand Omlet Beehaus which had never been used, from the tutor for the course.

People didn't seem totally enthusiastic about the Beehaus when I posted this information, however after chatting with my husband, we decided that we would keep the Beehaus. We have arranged to buy from our tutor - he is going abroad and so needs to sell his beekeeper materials including some bees.

We arranged to buy a nuc, and a nuc in a hive. We had an email today to say that what was on offer to us, is a brood box with what looks like a small but very good quality colony of bees, for £300 and there is hopefully going to be a nuc of bees once the queen has begun to lay.

My question is this..... we are going to put our nuc into one side of the beehaus. We don't know if we can somehow put the bees from the brood box, into the other side of the beehaus, or whether it would indeed be better to leave the colony in its hive and buy another brood box and build up the hive, rather than decanting it somehow into the second half of the brood box.

I know I can ask the tutor, and indeed we will do so shortly, but I am interested in getting other perspectives and arguments both for and against doing the above.

 

[flemage]

We arranged to buy a nuc, and a nuc in a hive. We had an email today to say that what was on offer to us, is a brood box with what looks like a small but very good quality colony of bees, for £300 and there is hopefully going to be a nuc of bees once the queen has begun to lay.

My question is this..... we are going to put our nuc into one side of the beehaus. We don't know if we can somehow put the bees from the brood box, into the other side of the beehaus, or whether it would indeed be better to leave the colony in its hive and buy another brood box and build up the hive, rather than decanting it somehow into the second half of the brood box.

Sorry i dont know much about beehaus apart from seeing photo's. but some one will come along who does………..

But I am a bit confused about what you are getting for you money.

So you are being offered is

1. a beehaus hive.

2. 1 brood box 'nuc' with bees (is this a national brood box does it come with floor and roof etc or is it a section to go into the beehaus)? Also how many frames are covered with bee's are there bees in all stages (eggs, lava, capped) and a laying queen?

3. A nuc with bee's but with a queen cell or a virgin queen which is not laying yet? Again would need to know how many frames of this nuc were covered with bees and a bit of history as to why they are queen less. I take it that they are waiting for the queen to lay and prove herself before selling it to you?

And you are getting all the above for £300?

 

[theeggman]

Simplywords,

I would change your public profile to remove your exact address as it makes it easier for the lightfingered out there.

Also, if the offer is a brood box of unknown size and a nuc with a virgin Q
I would suggest you are being ripped off at £300.

If you decide to go with the 'beehaus' I am sure there are members of this forum who could supply bees.

to the forum by the way.

Tim

 

[Essexgary]

Hi simplywords

I have a beehaus (for about 3 years now), i am also a little confused about what nucs you are getting with the beehaus. But let me assume from what you write that there are 2 nucs..

Yes indeed you can have 2 colonies in a beehaus so put one in each end with the divider in the middle, fill up each side with foundation frames or keep them small and put the dummy board next to the last frame. Keep the first frame near the entrance on each side. They will happily co-exist and i do this when i artificial swarm, uniting the colonies again after the new virgin is mated and laying.

If you decide to keep 2 colonies in the beehaus long term you will need some spare equipment for swarm control. Remember that the beehaus is 14 x 12 frames so if the nucsvare on std national frames you will need to get them onto 14 x 12's or risk brace comb everywhere.

Remember to open both entrances if you use both sides.

Hope that helps

Gary

 

[Davelin]

If you are paying £300 for one colony that is way too much.
Never used beehaus, but seen one in action and would not be my choice however:

If you start with one colony this year, you may well have two next year.
You should be able to get a good nuc from someone in your association for well under £200. That would be my advice.

 

[psafloyd]

If from within an association, a nuc should be well under £200.

 

[Simplywords]

Beehaus Advice 2

Makes it sound like a film, although of course, it isn't.

It sounds as if there is some confusion about my earlier post regarding bees and hives and the Beehaus. Let me explain it better....

We bought our Beehaus from our tutor as he is selling everything except the children and I saw a faint hesitation when he was asked the question!! We were told he had bought the Beehaus in a trade style deal where he got the Beehaus itself, but not all the stuff you get when you buy a Beehaus as new with the pack of things it comes with. He said that it was never used, but did occupy a space in his apiary, so that students on his courses could see it.

We paid him £200 - I think. It seems so long ago. We finished the course last week and checked that on his list for his bees we were there expecting to get a nuc - with laying queen (just) and a brood box with bees, stores and brood, but not a full hive's worth of course. Then the following day we had an email to say that he had just looked on his computer and his list and said he didn't have enough bees for everyone to get their orders. Thus he would sell us a full brood in it's broodbox, containing a strong colony and laying queen with stores and brood. This he said would cost us £300. he added that he had sold another course member the same thing for £400!

He knew we wanted to use our Beehaus and that we had thought to put the nuc that we had ordered. He kept saying that it wasn't a good idea to put two sets of bees in the Beehaus, even with the divider board in place.... we cannot remember what his reasons were.

We are now the possessors of the brood box of bees. We did see them on Tuesday - last day of the course - as the only bees not in nucs. It was a very strong and productive set of bees and with a very good queen by looks (apparently - I have no idea how you tell, but everyone agreed at the time) They are to go in the Beehaus at one end, since we were told that the queen was very prolific and would likely fill everything and need more space. We got the bees at 10pm last night. I thought someone would call the police for loitering with intent to burgle, but we weren't.

He recommended someone else who he knows often has bees to sell. I rang the next day and we are to get a nuc midweek. We of course need to check if they have arrived with him, and been inspected, he said. We didn't think to ask their age or variety in the excitement.

Our concern is that we were both there and heard the tutor telling the group that the Beehaus shouldn't play host to two 'hives' and so we shouldn't be putting the bees in the other half of the Beehaus. He also wonders why we wanted the 'nuc in a hive' in the first place, even though we had said we thought we would have four or five hives eventually, and that this could be the start.

So....the bees we got last night are in their brood box, next to the Beehaus and with their entry close to its. Tomorrow we plan to move them into the Beehaus and as they go into it, to try and fit Burnett extensions in order to stop them making their own comb underneath, the Beehaus being deeper than normal.

I think that the bees from the tutor are vigorous and good tempered and have continued to be so throughout the ten weeks of the course and being opened and inspected twice a week by members of the two classed run using that apiary and those bees.

To be clear then - we paid £300 for a full brood box with laying queen and brood and stores in the right proportions. We will be paying £185 for the unknown pedigree nuc, on Wednesday. We intend to put each into their own half of the Beehaus and then to blow-torch clean the brood box and any other parts that we pick up, in readiness for extending at an appropriate moment, with our own bees unless we find a swarm with a pedigree of course.

Anyone know if there is a reason for not using the other half of the Beehaus?

 

[Queens59]

Glad I read this post after I started keeping bees or I would think bee-keeping far to expensive for my pocket...Is it me or are these bees gold plated? I haven't ever paid anywhere near these prices...

 

[pargyle]

Anyone know if there is a reason for not using the other half of the Beehaus?

Wow - lots of investment there ... You can use both ends of the beehaus (It's basically a Long Deep Hive) and there are two entrances on there so that you can use both ends. However, it is more usual to use the two halves in order to carry out AS rather than running two full colonies in it ... I think that you may find, if you have two vigorous colonies, that you will run out of space in the beehaus. Particularly if you get a good flow.

Do you have the supers that can be added above the beehaus brood box ? If so, and you do get a good flow, then that may solve your 'room' problems in the short term.

It all depends how fast your colonies grow and how much stores they get in. Theoretically, with 11 frames per side you should be able to overwinter two 'normal' sized colonies. But .... I'd be ready with your wooden brood box if I was you and get one of them back in there as soon as you can and just leave one in the Beehaus, dummied down with the divider and move it along as they expand. If you put one of them into the timber brood box you might want to dummy them down as well if they are Nuc sized.

PS: You really are paying over the odds for your bees and equipment - have a look at what some people on here are offering for a lot less. Sorry ? I wasn't going to but it had to be said ....

 

[pargyle]

I've just been re-reading your last post and my earlier response:

we were there expecting to get a nuc - with laying queen (just) and a brood box with bees, stores and brood, but not a full hive's worth of course. Then the following day we had an email to say that he had just looked on his computer and his list and said he didn't have enough bees for everyone to get their orders. Thus he would sell us a full brood in it's broodbox, containing a strong colony and laying queen with stores and brood. !


So you were expecting to get a nucleus with a laying (but recently mated) queen and a box of worker bees without a queen ?

There is some logic to this ... the Beehaus is a big hive and with a nucleus + a load of extra bees to combine with it you would have quite a strong colony in the beehaus.



He kept saying that it wasn't a good idea to put two sets of bees in the Beehaus, even with the divider board in place

I'm not surprised he had concerns ... if he was selling you a strong nuc with a queen and a strong colony with a queen in a brood box then you have two strong colonies going into a single hive.


It was a very strong and productive set of bees and with a very good queen

He recommended someone else who he knows often has bees to sell. I rang the next day and we are to get a nuc midweek.

He also wonders why we wanted the 'nuc in a hive' in the first place, even though we had said we thought we would have four or five hives eventually, and that this could be the start.

So do you have any other parts of the National hive apart from the brood box ? If so, I would leave the bees in there and run it as a hive on its own, probably put a super on it if they are ready for it.


So....the bees we got last night are in their brood box, next to the Beehaus and with their entry close to its. Tomorrow we plan to move them into the Beehaus

Why ?

So ... you've got the Nuc coming this week. Shake them into the Beehaus, dummy it down to five or six frames and let them get on with it. Run the national as a hive .... all you need is a floor a roof and super - make your own stand.

Keep the nuc box for any later manipulations you need to make.

 

[Simplywords]

And a bit more

Thanks first of all to those who took the trouble to give me advice and suggestions. It felt reassuring to hear we were almost 'there' with what we want to do.

I know of a man who everyone says makes hives from cedar, not pine or other woods. He, according to the tutor, makes really good hives at reasonable rates. Our tutor thought that the polystyrene hives would be a better bet because they work better in keeping the bees at the right temperature.

Yes, he said by make that we should look to ****** first. He and family are off to somewhere in Italy because the climate will add a considerable amount of health, he is struggling with health issues apparently.

The task of becoming a beekeeper in Northumberland generally, seems to be more expensive than 'doon sooth'. We have no idea, other than that folk are desperate to find quality gear because there are few local places and Northumberland. We know of the hive maker in Newcastle and found another in Carlisle (we bought the nuc from him and transferred them across the next day.

The tutor said that although he would suggest that the new bees from him should be transferred sooner rather than later, he thought they'd be okay.. for several days until summer arrived, which of course it did, yesterday and today.

As far as we can tell, the 'quantity' of bees, we were told were what could be called a small colony. They were certainly going out foraging and coming back with their legs a beautiful bright yellow.

There were seven frames in this brood box, and five in the nuc, so like everyone seems to be saying we paid far more than necessary amount.

We will hold the thought and again thanks for your help. Should we have further questions, I will feel enabled to ask. I would have liked to ask these types of questions before committing to pay anyone for anything. The tutor, after reading my email about being very disappointed that we bought the Beehaus in order to put bees in it and here he was letting us down. He then offered the name of someone in Carlisle who sold bees and may offer bees at an auction.

I hope that makes sense to everyone?
But again thanks for your concerns and advice. I can't wait to get from novice and become a beekeeper instead, then I won't have loads of questions to ask of anyone because we will have found out beforehand.

We want to get to maybe five hives in total, but obviously not with frames for a beehaus....we had to shake all the bees off a frame, and then join the frame to Burnett extension. Sounded relatively easy, but with quite a few frames the only way to do this was by paring off the wood until it fit the extension joint. All the normal frames are now with extensions and so far we haven't looked in to make sure that the extensions are still attached!!!!

The bees are Carniolan by variety, from both suppliers and of good disposition also. They did fly about when their hive got taken out for the extensions to be fitted. Throughout all this, we were able to wear Nitrile gloves with the ends under the sleeves . None threatened to do damage to anyone and none tried to sting either.

Roll on the next set of bees.......even tually.

 

[pargyle]

I can't wait to get from novice and become a beekeeper instead, then I won't have loads of questions to ask of anyone because we will have found out beforehand.

QUOTE]

It's all a steep learning curve and I think virtually everyone on here would still describe themselves as novices ! The bees still seem to outwit us no matter what you do ...

Now that you have got things settled with your existing colony you have time to relax a bit and get your plans together for overwintering and next year ...

There's lots of helpful people on here so don't be afraid to ask .... there's a lot of questions which some people think may be silly but I reckon there's scores of people who benefit from the answers but are just to scared to ask !

Good luck.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The bees are Carniolan by variety,

You'll need those five hives then

 

[BeeJayBee]

We want to get to maybe five hives in total, but obviously not with frames for a beehaus....we had to shake all the bees off a frame, and then join the frame to Burnett extension. Sounded relatively easy, but with quite a few frames the only way to do this was by paring off the wood until it fit the extension joint. All the normal frames are now with extensions and so far we haven't looked in to make sure that the extensions are still attached!!!!

If you're looking for a well insulated National hive then Beehive Supplies in Cornwall makes a good one both standard national and 14x12.

There are 'standards' for the supply of nucleus colonies. Details are on the B8KA site as well as on Beebase "Sale of Honey bee nuclei" https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/downloadDocument.cfm?id=630.

There's no reason why you can't buy a colony from somebody on this forum, from somebody within your BKA or from almost all suppliers with websites.

Good luck with your bees. Enjoy them

... And keep asking questions.

 

[thorn]

It's a difficult scenario to understand, but if I've got it right you've got an empty beehaus, a brood box of bees, including a queen, and a nuc of bees with a queen.

I'd go with the earlier suggestion. Keep the brood box of bees as it is, adding a super. Shake the nuc of bees into the beehaus, dummied down. That then gives you the other half of the beehaus as a "spare" hive, should you need it.

In a year's time you'll be able to post telling us how well (or otherwise) the colony in the beehaus has done compared to the one in the national hive.

And if you need to buy another hive, I'd think that your being in Hexham means you need to go for a poly hive. Has the ice on your garden pond melted yet?

 

[drstitson]

a full colony is a full colony - sounds like you got a 7 frame nuc housed in a brood box!!!!! way over the top at £300!!!!

 

[drstitson]

BTW OP - if you allow PMs you may get advice (eg where to source decent equipment or bees) that can't be openly posted.

 

[Simplywords]

So far

Hi Guys!
Thanks for the posts. I feel better, hearing what you are all saying and knowing that people care enough to respond to my early worries about being a beekeeper.

We now have two separate sets of bees in our beehaus, which they took to like a duck to water. Our decision to put both sets of bees in each end of our beehaus, seemed the best way for us.
We bought some Burnett extensions from Thornes and after letting the first set of bees have a few days to get used to their new environment and put their uniforms on to go explore the places to visit. They weren't really angry, thankfully, and indeed were happily bringing leg sacs full of good stuff.... We did have a smoker to hand, but had no reason to use it.
We left the nuc in it's side of the Beehaus for a couple of days, for the same reasons and because it was so hot. Didn't know it would be a heatwave. When we opened them up, yes there was brace comb, but not a lot of it. We didn't use the smoker then either. We shook the bees back into their 'hive', took the frames out one at a time and put the extensions on and put them back inside.

Yes I know that you guys would probably have walked down to the pub and consumed whatever you normally drink, in the time it took us to put the extensions on. We used dummy boards as well, and gradually added a frame we made earlier.

So, so far all is well. What I am having difficulty in finding, is what is suggested about bees when their hive is in full sun, as our Beehaus is. Yes we are feeding sugar syrup to them, checking every couple of days and renewing this at these times.

If anyone can offer me any thoughts on whether our bees will survive this lovely (to sun worshippers) without further work by us...remember that the Beehaus has good double insulation and presumably the odd thousand or more, to stand at the entrance and fan with their wings to stabilise the heat. I ask this because temperature seems to be a major consideration, I know that bees are cold blooded but I never understood why and when to throw old knitwear under the roof and when not....

I had asked whether we should try to tuck them up in winter and was told that that was a question a beginner would ask, and then told that they didn't need extra heat because they would be in a huddle using their body heat. But there wasn't a reply that I could understand. Any help on what and when, would be gratefully received. e

 

[pargyle]

were happily bringing leg sacs full of good stuff.... .[/COLOR

We left the nuc in it's side of the Beehaus for a couple of days, for the same reasons and because it was so hot. Didn't know it would be a heatwave. When we opened them up, yes there was brace comb, but not a lot of it.

Don't quite understand this - did you put any frames in the beehaus with this nuc ? Why are they building brace comb - did you leave spaces that they could build brace comb in ? Give them the opportunity and they will fill anything bigger than bee space with comb.

what is suggested about bees when their hive is in full sun, as our Beehaus is.

The beehaus should be OK in full sun - unless they are actually hanging out of the entrance fanning like crazy or sitting on the outside of the hive then you probably have nothing to worry about.

Yes we are feeding sugar syrup to them, checking every couple of days and renewing this at these times.

Why are you still feeding them - a couple of litres to settle them in is all that's required - if they are bringing in loads of pollen then they should have enough to sort themselves out.

I ask this because temperature seems to be a major consideration, I know that bees are cold blooded but I never understood why and when to throw old knitwear under the roof and when not....

Small colonies in winter need a smaller space than a full hive and top insulation so that they can maintain the 'cluster' - the ball that they get into for winter - at an optimum temperature for them to survive. There are lots of differing views on winter insulation but I think everyone agrees that insulation on top of the crown board is the best way forward. A number of us keep insulation on top of the frames all the year round as it allows the bees to regulate the hive temperature in summer when it gets hot.

 

[mbc]

If I had just fleeced everyone on a course for as much as I could get I think I'd move quick claiming health issues too.