Bee theft article.

[Into the lions den]

Heads up all who may recently have had hives stolen, honey taken from their apiary, or the likes. I have had contact tonight with, and given an interview to, a journalist, Mark McAskill, working for the Sunday Times, who is researching an article about the problem of bee theft. He will be coming on the forum in the next day or two to ask for contacts of anyone who has suffered recent theft. Please help him if you can.

 

[victor meldrew]

Heads up all who may recently have had hives stolen, honey taken from their apiary, or the likes. I have had contact tonight with, and given an interview to, a journalist, Mark McAskill, working for the Sunday Times, who is researching an article about the problem of bee theft. He will be coming on the forum in the next day or two to ask for contacts of anyone who has suffered recent theft. Please help him if you can.

Problem with mass media ,it is often counter productive in that it often propagates ideas to the 'Johnny easy money ' amongst us
VM

 

[Little John]

What is the point of this (other than to sell newspapers) ?

If you tell this guy about beehives in unguarded fields, located in orchards, and so forth; how impossible it is to identify colonies; the existing techniques for marking hives; the market value of NUCs; the disinterest shown by so many police forces, and so on - that is exactly the stuff he'll fill his article with.

And then a lot more people who are currently ignorant of the easy pickings to be had from dodgy bees and hives, will no longer be so ignorant.

 

[VEG]

I would never give info to the press they print what they like not what was said.

 

[Into the lions den]

I have been down the 'talking to the press' road many times, and a few odd cases excepted have always found them to relate the bee story not too badly.

I cannot see what harm this does, and anything that raises the profile of our craft/profession cannot be bad. I have had bee theft before and the press coverage generated a lot of interest, and our persistent bee thief in the Edinburgh area never came back.

Sadly almost all bee theft is carried out by other beekeepers, who know very well the value of that which they doth purloin. Its not a field of theft that is generally the speciality of a casual or opportunistic general criminal. You need to know what you are doing. A press article written for the consumption of the general public should not cause any upsurge. My view is that, on the contrary, their (the thieves) activities should not be swept under the carpet and ignored, and once the press get involved PC/DC Plod, down at the bottom of the food chain, tends to get a poked in the ribs with a 'poin ted stick' from someone higher up, and action can ensue.

 

[The Cumbrian]

with ITLD

 

[REDWOOD]

ITLD, how many hives do you loose through theft and how many do the police recover also do you use any prevention against theft

 

[Into the lions den]

ITLD, how many hives do you loose through theft and how many do the police recover also do you use any prevention against theft

Last major theft was 12 hives from one apiary in two visits, then came back and swiped the number of supers and excluders needed, all over about three nights.

Number recovered..........as invariably..........zero.

Have had a number of theft cases before that but usually just the odd hive or two going, although one year we put the clearer boards on on a Friday, came back Monday, and apart from 6 hives that had not cleared, they had swiped the honey crop (heather too) off 55 hives, a total of about 40 deeps and 100 supers. A lot of honey. We were able to find the way the guy had driven a 4x4 through trees, avoiding the track which would have been visible and blockable, completely hidden from view, and where he had loaded the vehicle. Obviously had the place under some kind of watch to see when the boards went on. A red Hiluux had been seen by the local gamekeeper, also a beekeeper, at his own hives and a few days later honey went missing there too. The vehicle was traced to a man in his 70's near Montrose, so he had driven 60 odd miles to do his swiping, and he had a lot of heather honey all extracted in his shed ready for bulk sale. In his back garden there was the remains of a bonfire that had been around a long time, the layer of nails was apparently nearly a foot deep. (Source a policeman involved, over a beer or six, who was a classmate of my brother at school.)

A friend of mines lost a whole site of 24 Nationals from close to this guys place in one go. The guy involved used to sell bees regularly too, so naturally was a prime suspect.

After the police involvement (nothing could be absolutely proved btw, so he was not charged, but left in no doubt they knew what he was doing and that he was being watched) the guy never went back near our bees in that area.

As for theft prevention? Well apart from the concealed cameras in trees, the trip wires, 'chipped' boxes, the alarmed pads under the hives to detect movement and ring my mobile, the landmines, electric fences, bear pits, roaming rottweilers, Ukrainian psychopathic staff members camping nearby, and A.m.m.bees that sting on sight (at the heather anyway)...nothing. But we work on a few basics. The apiaries must be completely hidden or completely open. Bee thief radar soon picks up the half hidden places and then they can sneak in and do their worst. We like locked gates and paranoid landowners/farmers who come charging out with a shotgun at the first sign of an intruder. Unimogs generally get us to places that many a bee thief will be unable to reach. Insurance not a viable option. Its cheaper to get a third of your bees stolen each year.

I like the publicity. Shows the thief I am a big ugly guy built like a certain type of proverbial outhouse, and have a number of similar characters work for me. Get caught stealing MY bees?...............an 'accident' may befall you.

The fact that actually I am as gentle as a they come and would never do such a thing need not be included...........

 

[Little John]

I have been down the 'talking to the press' road many times, and a few odd cases excepted have always found them to relate the bee story not too badly.

I cannot see what harm this does, and anything that raises the profile of our craft/profession cannot be bad. I have had bee theft before and the press coverage generated a lot of interest, and our persistent bee thief in the Edinburgh area never came back.

Sadly almost all bee theft is carried out by other beekeepers, who know very well the value of that which they doth purloin. Its not a field of theft that is generally the speciality of a casual or opportunistic general criminal. You need to know what you are doing. A press article written for the consumption of the general public should not cause any upsurge. My view is that, on the contrary, their (the thieves) activities should not be swept under the carpet and ignored, and once the press get involved PC/DC Plod, down at the bottom of the food chain, tends to get a poked in the ribs with a 'poin ted stick' from someone higher up, and action can ensue.

Put the two highlighted sentences together, and they spell a potential recipe for bringing the beekeeping world into disrepute. Beekeepers nicking from their own ... is Joe Public really going to be sympathetic about that ?

At the moment it may well be only other beekeepers who are doing the 'nicking', but believe me, when word gets spread around in this current climate of financial austerity, then I predict the same guys who rustle sheep and nick copper cables from alongside railway lines etc, will also be in on the honeybee game.

Slight Fred Drift ... I'm wondering what the legal position is regarding bee 'ownership'. Do we ever truly 'own' the bees - they are a wild species after all, and prone to leaving home on their own volition.
Maybe that's why Plod is reluctant to get involved: ownership of the hive itself may be easy enough to demonstrate, but proving ownership of bees and honey ... can that ever be done, "within reasonable doubt" (which is what the law requires) ?

 

[george]

Ownership of bees and honey is easy . They are in my hives with the permission of the land owner , therefore my bees . They cease to be my bees if they swarm .
Publicity is no bad thing in these cicumstances , let people know there are dirtbags out there .

G

 

[Little John]

I'll admit to playing Devil's Advocate here ...

... so how do you prove the bees in your hive belong to you (in a court of law) ? It's by no means as easy as it first appears.
With a marked Queen you'd be on fairly good ground (although not 100%), but the rest of the bees ?

Common sense has nothing to do with it (unfortunately) - it's whether the CPS considers your case watertight enough to prosecute ...

 

[REDWOOD]

After reading the message that ITLD had written, I think it's well over due to raise the profile of bee/honey theft, and harder punishment for anyone caught as a deterrent and a registration of all bees sold with a governing body.
Google earth is a fantastic program but leaves us wide open only the other day I was looking for land for a second apiary and noticed square boxes so took a closer look and they where beehives in a place I never knew there was any, perhaps we should let Google know this. luckily my hives are out of sight

 

[REDWOOD]

I'll admit to playing Devil's Advocate here ...

... so how do you prove the bees in your hive belong to you (in a court of law) ? It's by no means as easy as it first appears.
With a marked Queen you'd be on fairly good ground (although not 100%), but the rest of the bees ?

Common sense has nothing to do with it (unfortunately) - it's whether the CPS considers your case watertight enough to prosecute ...

Branded frames will give you a bit of time or a registration plate hidden between the joints of the BB that is fire proof

 

[newportbuzz]

reg plate is a nice touch. they could be cheap enough to hide everywhere aswell so they should pop up in the bonfire somewhere if pc plod is looking.

btw ireland is prone to this aswell. heard two occurances so far this year one from a research agency and one from a individual with 25 hives who lost a few from a quite well isolated spot.

 

[Little John]

I suppose much depends on what you're trying to achieve: no amount of marking will stop the thefts occurring, although it may well facilitate prosecution if detection should ever transpire at a later date.

It seems to me that the solution lies in the hands of beekeepers themselves - to make their hives as theft-proof as possible: that would protect both the hive itself, and the bees within. The problem here of course, is that beehives were simply never designed with this in mind, so a complete rethink may be called for.

Nationals and similar have 3 main problems: they are easily opened; easily dismantle-able; and easily transported. Deal with these factors, and the problem is solved.

Immediately it becomes clear that one-piece horizontal hives (framed or otherwise) would be far better suited to this role: being one-piece means there is nothing which can be dismantled, and they are very heavy to lift when full (or with added weights when not full) - so there is only the remaining ease of access to deal with. A reinforced roof and padlock should go some way to solve this. Complete destruction of the hive, or the use of a fork-lift truck would be the only avenues then open to thieves.

Nationals etc are far more difficult: I've been playing with the idea of a central screw-in ground anchor to secure *pairs of hives*. There may be a solution there, but the ease of sliding boxes out sideways makes this approach a non-starter. If the boxes could be made more 'Lego-like', then there's a possibility, but I can see a lot more squashed bees as a result of that.

A central 'chimney' through the hive, which would allow a ground anchor connection right up to the roof would be my favourite (at the current time), with the hive boxes being fitted with a central partition (with bee access through) - but this would mean losing one frame. Indeed, I can't see any obvious way of protecting Nationals without some box modifications. Even then, the variable hive height throughout the season also complicates this approach.

I'd be interested to hear anyone else's ideas ...

 

[Little John]

Google earth is a fantastic program but leaves us wide open only the other day I was looking for land for a second apiary and noticed square boxes so took a closer look and they where beehives in a place I never knew there was any, perhaps we should let Google know this. luckily my hives are out of sight

That's a good example of the 'advertising' I was talking about regarding that newspaper article.

I (and I guess a lot of others) had absolutely no idea that hives were visible like this.

But you've now told the world - including the thieves - that rather than burn petrol and drawing attention to themselves by driving around looking for likely 'targets', criminal research can be done from the comfort of your own home via Google Earth instead.

 

[Poly Hive]

And one thinks that they do not already? idiots they are not.

Bees have been stolen for as long as I have kept them. I lost a bonny nuc in 1992 or three canna remember now.

There are always going to be the light fingered in any fraternity. That is just the law of averages.

As for redesigning the hive please no, not another one there are far far far too many as it is.

PH

 

[REDWOOD]

what we are talking about is organised crime not school kids, they are not stupid people and use the internet for every illegal opportunity possible, they watch, observe, follow and plan their theft well in advance and use every electronic device possible, GPS, mobile phones, infra red, you name it they've got it, so to think I was the only one to think of google earth I think is a bit nieve.

PS If thieves want it be sure they usually get it, make no bones about that !

 

[Marigold]

I had a problem with vandalism of my hive so I decided to increase the security. I attached chain links to each section using giant staples and threaded a chain through the loops up either side of the hive. Padlocks at the top secure it in place. The chain is also attached to bolts driven into the slab underneath. There is plenty of extra chain if more supers are added. So far it seems to have worked and the vandals have left it alone. The stinging nettles also help.

 

[Poly Hive]

Sorry but I could have that away in three minutes flat.

I am serious.

10 secs to close in.

Remainder to use bolt cutters/ battery powered disc cutter.

Mega value pedal bikes were being nicked in London et all and the thieves were found using high power battery cutting kit.

Sorry... concealment is your friend really.

PH