BBKA membership

[thorn]

Oh, yes, plenty of court cases setting legal precedent, so the only way to be free of possible liability would be to give up beekeeping.

Beware: horses & bees do not usually mix, not just because horses exude animal sweat which alerts bees to a threat, but many equine grooming lotions contain chemicals that mimic the alarm pheromone of honey bees (thank you, Robin).

You're trying to justify saving £30 without the experience to take into account a worst-case scenario, but save elsewhere and see it as a sensible investment.

https://www.northernbeebooks.co.uk/products/frimston-and-smith-beekeeping-and-the-law/
https://www.northernbeebooks.co.uk/products/sweeney-bees-at-law/[/URL [URL unfurl="true"

I've not got or seen a copy of either book but believe that most of the cases cited are American and have little or no relevance to us. Could you give brief details out a couple of the English cases please, so we know where peril might lie.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I'm a country member of two BKA's as I have been working with both over the last couple of years. I can't be a full member of either as due to my membership of the BFA it would fraudulent to have more than one insurance policy covering the same thing.
As others have said the comic has some interesting (although not always strictly accurate) articles and it keeps me up to date on what the BBKA are thinking.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

it keeps me up to date on what the BBKA are thinking.

I prefer not to venture down that wormhole

 

[polymath]

Not sure the insurance is actually,really worth it unless you have lots of really expensive hardware and software.
You may have to fight for a payout.

Swarm list is only useful if you want lots of grotty colonies and the hassle of dealing with mostly unappreciative uninterested clientele-you could set up bait hives if your desperate.

Buying and selling are best done outside organisations.

Politics and bickering can be easily experienced ad nauseum on beekeeping forums .

Extractor hire can be worked around by simply buying your own,which will rapidly pay for itself without you being at the back of the queue of club favourites.

The Bbka magazine is a very useful resource as an Andrex substitute if you take out the shiny pages.


Use the time and money to treat yourself to a new queen.

Insurance is never worth it until you need it. I understand there is going to be a clearer definition of who is covered put forward at this years ADM i.e. anyone with 39 hives or under. It covers public and product so if a bit of glass was found in your honey for instance or something like that you are covered, to me it means I sleep at night. Bit like insuring your house in case of fire, you don't need it until your house burns down, don't care for your local group just join BBKA as a direct member.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Not sure the insurance is actually,really worth it unless you have lots of really expensive hardware and software.
You may have to fight for a payout.

big difference between BDI (pretty pointless) and public liability which is essential, and has nothing to do with how much 'hardware' you have the BDI is optional for anyone with more than three hives.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I can't be a full member of either as due to my membership of the BFA it would fraudulent to have more than one insurance policy covering the same thing.

but the BBKA insurance (PL or BDI) doesn't apply to you anyway as you have 'too many' hives

 

[Newbeeneil]

but the BBKA insurance (PL or BDI) doesn't apply to you anyway as you have 'too many' hives

I don’t think that would matter. The fact I had two policies (whether I could claim or not) covering the same loss would be a problem. I know of a couple of other beeks who are demonstrators at an apiary who have let their BBKA membership lapse because of the same conflict.

 

[Turlough]

To join or not to join, that is the question.
For me, consider that:
I'm deaf so unlikely to attend group visits or classes.
I'm not a "club" type
I dont need to know how to assemble frames etc
I dont need to buy any equipment
I wouldn't buy a nuc.
I will not be selling honey.

So, would I benefit from joining my local BKA? I've looked at their website and am unconvinced of the benefits but perhaps they are selling themselves short?
I often read on these forums less than complimentary comments about them.
What do you reckon? How do you benefit?
K

Having worked with deaf people in anotehr arena for many years, I am keen to learn of your experiences in beekeeping. I'd really appreciate a direct contact to discuss: [email protected]. Many thanks, Stephen

 

[blackcloud]

You can get insurance independently from the BbKa

Cover for everything is a national paranoia set about by the insurance industry

I've been offered house key insurance.
I won't need it until I lose my keys.
But then I won't need it anyway because I made sure I have spares (which cost less than the insurance-funny that)

 

[hemo]

Joining a LBKA can be cheaper then direct BBKA membership.

 

[Ely]

Not sure the insurance is actually,really worth it unless you have lots of really expensive hardware and software.
You may have to fight for a payout.

Swarm list is only useful if you want lots of grotty colonies and the hassle of dealing with mostly unappreciative uninterested clientele-you could set up bait hives if your desperate.

Buying and selling are best done outside organisations.

Politics and bickering can be easily experienced ad nauseum on beekeeping forums .

Extractor hire can be worked around by simply buying your own,which will rapidly pay for itself without you being at the back of the queue of club favourites.

The Bbka magazine is a very useful resource as an Andrex substitute if you take out the shiny pages.


Use the time and money to treat yourself to a new queen.

Why do they call you Blackcloud?

 

[Ian123]

Why do they call you Blackcloud?

Silver Lining is slanderous?

 

[North End Bees]

If I am not selling honey, what could I be sued for? My apiary is 200 yards from public access but only 20 yards from my neighbours paddock ( he intends to start keeping bees next year and will share the apiary).
K

If you do decide to join for the insurance, see if your neighbour will also join. Otherwise there may be all sorts of arguments about whose bees were responsible if a claim arises.

Re BDI they will only pay out if you have the stated number of colonies. So if you only pay for the minimum 3, then they won't cover you for any at all if they turn up for a foulbrood claim and you have 4+ .

 

[hemo]

BDI should be optional on all colonies.

 

[ericbeaumont]

not got or seen a copy of either book but believe that most of the cases cited are American

Of the 12 cases cited by Frimston, seven are British, two American, and one from Ireland, Canada and New Zealand.

Parker v Reynolds (Birmingham Assizes, 1906) claiming an injunction for nuisance: jury agreed, and costs were awarded against the beekeeper.
Kearry v Pattinson (Court of Appeal, London, 1938) held that a beekeeper had no right to go on his neighbour's land to re-take a swarm.
Johnson v Martin (Cambridge County Court, 1950) an action for damages for the death of a goat. Case dismissed, though the bees did kill the goat and put the goat-owner in hospital.
Ingamells v Pickford (Leicester County Court, 1966) where damages were claimed and an injunction sought: usual neighbourly ding-dong; Judge guided by case law in Bimingham in 1906 and found for the defendant beekeeper.
Tutton and others v A D Walter Ltd (High Court, 1984) in which damages were claimed for injury to bees by crop spraying; judgement for plaintiff beekeepers.
Tickner v White (Tunbridge Wells County Court, 1983) in which damages and an injunction were sought as a consequence of stinging. Claim dismissed, costs to defendant beekeeper.
Newark & Sherwood District Council v a Beekeeper (1991) alleging that bees were a nuisance. Judgement for plaintiff + costs.

Sweeney is a different kettle of fish, having been self-published without editing. Jerry Burbidge (Mr Northern Bee Books) saw me looking through it at a National Honey Show some years ago and told me that the writing needed sorting and cutting; Noel Sweeney, LL.B Dip. Crim. I M.A, was adamant that it did not, so NBB declined to publish. It is now out of print, which will spare you the ploughing of Noel's heavy soil in which are buried 68 cases. If the book had been written by Rumpole it would have cut to the chase and amused on the way, but as it is...

Frimston & Smith is worth £7 of anyone's money, but maybe not to a beekeeper who can't be bothered with £30 of PLI.

 

[BeeKeyPlayer]

Joining a LBKA can be cheaper then direct BBKA membership.

That's only true if you join your local BKA as a 'local' or associate member but that won't give you the features of BBKA membership such as the magazine, basic BDI, or public liability insurance.

 

[North End Bees]

BDI should be optional on all colonies.

But if you've only got the basic insurance for 3 colonies and they see you have more, which 3 are insured?
They won't cover you for any if you're underinsured.

 

[blackcloud]

Why do They call you Blackcloud?

"They" don't
And every silver lining has one

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don’t think that would matter. The fact I had two policies (whether I could claim or not) covering the same loss would be a problem.

but you don't have two policies - you have over 40 colonies so the BBKA won't insure you

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

But if you've only got the basic insurance for 3 colonies and they see you have more, which 3 are insured?
They won't cover you for any if you're underinsured.

none of them are, all your colonies have to be insured - same as if you share an apiary with an uninsured beekeeper, or you have more than 40 colonies your BDI is rendered invalid