BBKA magazine recommending open feeding?

[user 6228]

To be fair the ABJ has some challenges as well. They are not immune to what this audience would call howlers. Some would have cause severe burns if had a cup of hot tea in my hands. Even the peer reviewed journals have on occasion created a mixture of mirth and depression.

An article written in the Abj by a professor in entomology in 2020 on over wintering and insulation could have written in 1944.

 

[Wilco]

Essentially open feeding is laziness on the part of the beekeeper and a waste of syrup as it's not all going to your own bees.

Why create extra bee:bee contact between you bees and those from unknown colonies when there are other methods to feed which don't result in that and can be tailored to those that need it. It poses a potential threat both ways- unknown bees to yours and yours to the unknown ones. Biosecurity is really important as part of good husbandry.

 

[essex b's]

Open feeding can encourage robbing because feeders might go looking for other sources of food nearby. I've read (mostly US I think) beekeepers suggesting that the solution is to open feed some distance from the hives. Whether that's true or not I have no idea because I wouldn't open feed in the first place.

There are other problems associated with open feeding however. For example you don't know that you're only feeding your own bees. There could be another beekeeper's bees turning up, or feral bees. In fact you don't even know that you're only feeding honey bees. Wasps, ants, hornets and others will surely turn up as well. All in huge numbers.

So really you have no idea what's going to turn up at the feeders and some visitors are sure to be carrying something you don't want in your hives, or perhaps spreading between your hives. In all likelihood there will be fighting, insects will die and bacteria/spores/fungi/whatever carried both on the outside and inside will circulate very easily in the syrup solution.

There's also the problem that stronger colonies may get a disproportionately greater share of the food than the weaker ones when in fact you might want to ensure that the weaker colonies definitely get sufficient.

James

I entirely agree with you. The reason I would not open feed is because it is so damned inefficient, and a waste of money. The original article, as I understand it, did not advocate open feeding of honey, or in the immediate vicinity of existing hives. I just sometimes feel that the weight of opinion on this forum comes down like a ton of bricks and sometimes some thought should be given to what we are saying. We accuse the BBKA of dogma and living in the past, but it would appear to me we are sometimes equally dogmatic, although on the other side of the fence.
For example, in my first two years of beekeeping I overwintered my hives with matchsticks under the crown boards. Guess what? They survived!

 

[Newbeeneil]

I entirely agree with you. The reason I would not open feed is because it is so damned inefficient, and a waste of money. The original article, as I understand it, did not advocate open feeding of honey, or in the immediate vicinity of existing hives. I just sometimes feel that the weight of opinion on this forum comes down like a ton of bricks and sometimes some thought should be given to what we are saying. We accuse the BBKA of dogma and living in the past, but it would appear to me we are sometimes equally dogmatic, although on the other side of the fence.
For example, in my first two years of beekeeping I overwintered my hives with matchsticks under the crown boards. Guess what? They survived!

I agree that there is a significant anti BBKA faction here, which I often feel uncomfortable with, but my original post was not in that vein. It was just a reaction to what I consider was an outlandish bit of advice in a publication that is often taken as gospel by new beekeepers.
We all know bees will overcome many obstacles that we present them with but they seem to do better with less obstacles.

 

[essex b's]

I agree that there is a significant anti BBKA faction here, which I often feel uncomfortable with, but my original post was not in that vein. It was just a reaction to what I consider was an outlandish bit of advice in a publication that is often taken as gospel by new beekeepers.
We all know bees will overcome many obstacles that we present them with but they seem to do better with less obstacles.

I fully accept what you say. I would add that the reason I so rarely post on here is that these debates so often are reduced to insults and vitriol. Maybe this is the time of night for reasoned arguments, and I am grateful that my questions have been met with well argued responses. Maybe the fact that this is Burns night has also caused a mellowing of contributors, it has certainly helped me.

 

[Wilco]

I fully accept what you say. I would add that the reason I so rarely post on here is that these debates so often are reduced to insults and vitriol. Maybe this is the time of night for reasoned arguments, and I am grateful that my questions have been met with well argued responses. Maybe the fact that this is Burns night has also caused a mellowing of contributors, it has certainly helped me.

Please keep posting and not just in this thread.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Why does open feeding (of sugar syrup) encourage robbing and disease spreading any more than the occupants of many hives meeting up and feeding on a particularly attractive tree or shrub in early spring?

It's not just disease though. Open feeding encourages the bees there to try their luck elsewhere...like a nearby hive.

 

[Erichalfbee]

For example, in my first two years of beekeeping I overwintered my hives with matchsticks under the crown boards. Guess what? They survived!

Well, thank heavens you found us. Now your bees will not only survive but actually thrive.

 

[user 20297]

I'm aware that it's a minor point, in fact, almost trivial, but you perhaps have an additional responsibility to other beekeepers and to anyone to whom they supply honey. Whilst one beekeeper may decide that their bees need feeding, others may be getting enough natural forage to be storing honey, which will be " contaminated" with sugar.

 

[BoothBees]

As a complete beginner to beekeeping, this actually really worries me. It worries me because I might not know what is right and what is wrong, especially if it comes from an apparent authority on the subject. This could be true of the magazine, the conventions, and potentially even the affiliated local societies. I'd be gutted if I did something that harmed my colonies in the first year.

 

[The Poot]

This thread has reminded me of the Crocodile Dundee film - I have an odd mind.
In the outback when faced with the grubs the natives eat the heroine asks “ do you eat that?”
The reply was “You can live on it but….”
Dundee later asks the same question when faced with an American hot dog from a street vendor. Same answer.

You can feed your bees by open feeding….but.
If you’ve ever stood by a hive being robbed out, you certainly wouldn’t ever run the risk of encouraging it. The violence is remarkable and the outcome very depressing. It presents a very “different side” to our buzzy friends.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I'm aware that it's a minor point, in fact, almost trivial, but you perhaps have an additional responsibility to other beekeepers and to anyone to whom they supply honey. Whilst one beekeeper may decide that their bees need feeding, others may be getting enough natural forage to be storing honey, which will be " contaminated" with sugar.

To be fair the article was about feeding in February when no one in their right mind would have supers on their hives for honey collection. I take your point though as new beekeepers reading the article may not apreciate the point.

 

[essex b's]

It's not just disease though. Open feeding encourages the bees there to try their luck elsewhere...like a nearby hive.

By your logic then we should never place our hives too near to a major source of nectar as the bees, high on nectar, will immediately swoop down and attack the nearest hive. it sounds just like Colchester on a Saturday night.
Of course, I have seen incidents of robbing and I agree it is not at all attractive. However, I am aware that , invariably, it is only the weak hives that succumb. We know that bees are opportunistic feeders and I suspect that all hives are on the alert at all times, or else why employ guards at the entrance?
As to robbing, I lose the odd weak hive but almost always to wasps, not bees, and usually because I have failed to notice the problem soon enough, and take the appropriate action to prevent the attack.

 

[Ian123]

This is not a case of moaning at the BBKA for the sake of it. This just goes against the most basic good practice, and to boot its in the accredited magazine. Quite frankly to include it in the magazine that’s read by beginners or the inexperienced shows very poor judgement. I’d suggest they deserve all the flak coming in their direction, and it’s no excuse to suggest this is all they have or it’s not approved!
To compound matters we have shook swarms being promoted…. There is nothing this achieves that can’t be replicated simply, apart from the needless destruction of bees and resources. I’m not aware of a single good beekeeper that thinks this is a good idea.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You have clearly never seen the effect that leaving an open source of concentrated food in the immdiate vicinity of an apiary causes. It's mayhem .. bees are opportunists and it's not just your bees that will find it - within no time at all every bee within miles will be there. There is carnage as bees crawl over each other and fight to get at the food source.

I made the mistake, once, and left a small tub of cappings and honey with the lid loose outside when I was extracting .. only whilst I shut the kitchen door - and forgot to bring it inside. 10 mins later when I remembered .... I can't describe the boiling mass of bees that resulted and the number of dead bees left behind when dusk arrived. Nothing I could do would stop it ... and this was well away from the apiary. I've also accidentally left a brood frame of honey I took out of a hive propped against the hive ... same result.

Bees in that close proximity are going to be passing any disease or parasites to one another - but that's only part of the problem with open feeding !

I remember a few years ago when, during extraction, a stack of sealed up wet supers awaiting to go back in the storage shelter fell over, the noise of the fighting bees coming over the sound of the extractor alerted me -it was carnage in the garden and it was hours before anyone in the street could venture outside

I may be completely wrong on this one,

I think you are - I've noticed a tendency on here for some people to jump straight to the defence of the BBKA regardless of the subject matter or the fact they are promoting absolutely outrageous 'advice'

I am aware that many experienced members of this forum are in favour of using "old black comb" in bait hives, which must surely increase the risk of transmission of disease spores

the majority of beekeepers I know, if they suspect the comb may carry diseased stores, the only place it would go would be on the bonfire

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's not just disease though. Open feeding encourages the bees there to try their luck elsewhere...like a nearby hive.

And we all forget the effect on the human population in the vicinity of this feeding frenzy, people who may feel uncomfortable in the presence of a solitary inquisitive bee, let alone a cloud of bees behaving like a gaggle of Woolworth shoppers during the beginning of the January sales.
SWMBO has now developed a severe allergic reaction to bee stings, and when I'm extracting tends to stay at a friend's for the duration or, if at work always calls for a 'situational update' before coming home from work and walking into chaos (as even when there are no open vats of sweetness around bees tend to be inquisitive at the strong scent which hangs around an extraction room)
She is lucky as she has an understanding of bees, having helped me and, in the past having worked with SBI's and RBI's in the county and at Sand Hutton, so can run the gauntlet of nosey bees - but most of the great unwashed don't have that advantage.

 

[philipm]

Remember some years ago leaving a super that I,d removed in the shed and I,d left the door open ,When I came back after about an hour. I thought that a swarm had moved in there were so many bees. Lesson learnt never leave an open source of food .

 

[Ian123]

By your logic then we should never place our hives too near to a major source of nectar as the bees, high on nectar, will immediately swoop down and attack the nearest hive. it sounds just like Colchester on a Saturday night.
Of course, I have seen incidents of robbing and I agree it is not at all attractive. However, I am aware that , invariably, it is only the weak hives that succumb. We know that bees are opportunistic feeders and I suspect that all hives are on the alert at all times, or else why employ guards at the entrance?
As to robbing, I lose the odd weak hive but almost always to wasps, not bees, and usually because I have failed to notice the problem soon enough, and take the appropriate action to prevent the attack.

There’s a difference between how bees react to an open feeder and a natural source. So no it’s not the same logic!
As to only weak hives being affected….. would that be mating nucs…. Five frame nucs or just the smaller colonies. Are you suggesting this is a possible justification.
Wasps are a pain but in lager apiaries bees can be just as predatory or dangerous to other colonies perhaps even more so. After all you’ll notice a wasp going in the front door but another bee?

 

[user 6228]

As a complete beginner to beekeeping, this actually really worries me. It worries me because I might not know what is right and what is wrong, especially if it comes from an apparent authority on the subject. This could be true of the magazine, the conventions, and potentially even the affiliated local societies. I'd be gutted if I did something that harmed my colonies in the first year.

That's a feeling I remember . After just receiving a lecture at Buckfast abbey on how bees stayed warm through the winter and went outside and looked their hives and felt surprise and confusion... Still digging into it 12 years later.

 

[North End Bees]

Yes, egregious. Is there any mechanism for the forum to send a petition of disapproval to the mag? Alternatively maybe we should bombard the mag with messages of derision. I'll write to the editor of my local BKA newsletter.

Or write to Karl Colyer directly. He does the monthly newsletter for BIBBA.