Bailey comb change timing.

[Matt77]

Afternoon all, I've got two colonies which I'd like to perform Bailey comb changes on. Having never done it before I was after a bit of advice on when is a good time to do it?

Both colonies are on 5-6 frames of bees(just looking through the crownboard) & are in poly hives.

Cheers.

 

[Erichalfbee]

The last time I did two colonies was in 2014. Mid April. There was a good willow and gorse flow and I had five frames full of brood....not just bees. The weather was set fair for a week or two. I will never do it again though. One colony flat refused to use the top entrance, preferring to camp out under the OMF or taking their nectar and pollen to another hive. Waste of time. I get new comb with AS every year.

 

[snelgrove]

What is you reason for doing this? it's a rather drastic method so early in the season, unless disease is of concern.
If disease is the reason then replace the hive parts as well.

 

[Poly Hive]

I have never attemped it as I can only see stress and distress to the bees.

Nor can I see the benefits (there are supposedly) outweighing the above.

Frankly leave well alone.

PH

 

[pargyle]

I have never attemped it as I can only see stress and distress to the bees.

Nor can I see the benefits (there are supposedly) outweighing the above.

Frankly leave well alone.

PH

Great advice ... last thing anyone should be doing at this time of the year - or at all unless there really is a good reason to give them a massive and unnecessary amount of work ...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Can never see the obsession with conducting a Bailey change unless there's foulbrood present - that's what the method was designed for.
Don't accept all this flannel about it making the colony more vigorous etc. either.

 

[REDWOOD]

Whatever your reasons is for doing it, it's like what others have said much too early, but the correct timing of it is just before you have lots of drone cells, when there is a flow on, the weather is warm and the colony has really grown in size. It is important to make sure most of the frames in the new box are drawn before you trap the queen up there otherwise this can lead to early swarming

 

[Matt77]

No disease concerns, I have two colonies which I bought last year. I do not know how old the comb is, they also have a number of frames which are not spaced so I have uneven comb built which was making inspections a bit tricky last year. My thinking was I could do a Bailey change & I'd be able to do away with all of it & I'd have known start point for the age of the comb etc. More than happy to be told it's a daft idea or there's a better solution.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you do an artificial swarm when it's timely (i.e. you find swarm cells) using the Pagden method you will get a whole box of new frames with little bother.

 

[REDWOOD]

I have only done it to convert from one format to another, you can get your frame spacing right buy shaving off excess comb with a bread knife on the frames they are not using and work out others but i know what you mean it looks a bloody mess in there. I have a hive this year that will get a baileys as a swarm moved into a partially framed hive and there is comb everywhere. If you have any good frames you can put them in the top box to save bees drawing out more foundation, more the merrier.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Can never see the obsession with conducting a Bailey change unless there's foulbrood present - that's what the method was designed for.

That would be a shook swarm, not a Bailey comb change.

 

[Matt77]

Thanks all for the input, I'm definitely feeling less inclined to do a Bailey change now. I don't have any drawn comb to use so it'll be all foundation. I'd not even considered the AS thing Erica. That sounds like a plan, I'd decided to reunite some AS this year, so perhaps that's a good opportunity to get the job tided up.

Glad I asked!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That would be a shook swarm, not a Bailey comb change.

That's what tinnitus does for you - head's all over the place!

 

[Erichalfbee]

That's what tinnitus does for you - head's all over the place!

Too many pop concerts

 

[Millet]

Thanks all for the input, I'm definitely feeling less inclined to do a Bailey change now. I don't have any drawn comb to use so it'll be all foundation. I'd not even considered the AS thing Erica. That sounds like a plan, I'd decided to reunite some AS this year, so perhaps that's a good opportunity to get the job tided up.

Glad I asked!

Do you need drawn comb to do a Bailey,? i gathered it was to whip the old gear out brood and whatever present and replace it with a new wax foundation frame.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Do you need drawn comb to do a Bailey

No. The whole point is to get NEW comb, but you leave the old brood alone.
New box on top of old, feed, move entrance so that bees go in and out between the boxes,wait till a good amount of comb is drawn, make sure queen is in top box, place excluder between, wait for brood to emerge in bottom box then take it away.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Too many pop concerts

More like years working between the equivalent of two intercity 125's combined with a nasty side effect of the painkillers I'm on at the moment.

 

[Millet]

No. The whole point is to get NEW comb

I'm confused or someone is, not you by the way.

Do you need drawn comb to do a Bailey,? i gathered it was to whip the old gear out brood and whatever present and replace it with a new wax foundation frame.

Edited to ad, this was what i also typed in my original post.

 

[Matt77]

As I wanted to do it to tidy up some iffy comb & some frames which are not space correctly, Redwood suggested that maybe I could use some already drawn comb to help them out a bit. I do understand that generally one would use foundation.

 

[bontbee]

OK, I am going to stick my head above the parapet... I understood it as:

shook swarm - to get bees onto clean foundation, feed them so they can draw it, and dispose of all the original brood and combs. Used in some cases of EFB so that bacteria are "locked" into the new comb as the bees work the foundation. (Not sure I believe that bit, myself).

Bailey change - to get the bees onto clean comb or foundation, (feeding them so that they can draw it), and keep the original brood...(ie allow it to emerge).

With a Bailey change, the warmth from the brood nest below helps in the drawing of the wax. (Comb can be rotated so that foundation is brought near the middle for working). Can't be done too early or on a puny colony.