Asian Hornet - Update

[Karol]

Originally Posted by Karol View Post

Quite simply spring trapping in the UK is not warranted at the moment. And no, I'm not suggesting that we wait until velutina becomes established.

I agree!

Quite the opposite. I just believe that in the UK the catch, treat and release method together with the actions taken by the NBU in response to surveillance will be enough to contain the problem.

I disagree!

Why? The UK is not heavily forested, doesn't have large swathes of wetlands, isn't particularly warm and doesn't have the insect densities seen on the continent.

I appreciate the comments made by Mazzamazda about the labour intensiveness of the catch, treat and release method but in part I think that that's down to two things. The arbitrary nature of the treatment post electric stun which may mean that only a proportion of the hornets treated make it back to their nests

I'm now pretty sure I have the catch, treat and release down to a fine art but the sheer number of nests and hornets are quite overwhelming, its a massive problem here.

OK but when you treat do you not see a visible decline in hornet workers within a matter of a few days? The important thing is not to stop just because the numbers fall to a comparatively low number but to press on and mop up those last hornets. The following year, there should be far fewer hornets. The caveat to this is that sufficient other beekeepers use the same method so that their districts don't end up as sanctuaries/reservoirs that keep repopulating your area. It has to be a concerted approach.

and secondly, that the application of Fipronil is limited in it's migration within the nest. Use of a laced wet sugar paste would encourage wider circulation of the Fipronil in the nest and potentially allow a greater dose to be applied to the hornet without it succumbing to quickly. Importantly, the paste has to be daubed on the back of the thorax and upper abdomen.

I'm terrified of any of this stuff dropping off and getting in my hives, I take on board what you are saying but my hives are needing food, if they pick up a little amount of Fipronil its game over.

I understand but this is where consistency and formulation are important. When I say wet paste I mean at the verge of being a 'glass'. You don't need a lot, just enough to put a film on the thorax and upper abdomen. You certainly wouldn't want to cake the hornet in a flaking dry fondant. Also there are other aspects which I covered in an earlier post.

We are only at the beginning of October. The wasp season this year is very late and is likely to run through until December. There's still 8 weeks worth of surveillance to be done to look for evidence of Asian hornets hawking around bee hives. As the season progresses so the availability of carbohydrate sources will diminish and there will be greater pressure on hives as one of the last remaining sources. If we don't see any more Asian hornets bothering hives by December then there isn't the justification for spring trapping.

The Asians here are already getting a sweet tooth, it was 25o here today, I suspect the queens will be released sooner this year.

OK and presumably you are seeing them around the hives now more interested in honey rather than the bees?

If, however, there is evidence of Asian hornets sweet feeding around hives come early December, then that will be a different story as it will mean that most likely there will have been Asian queens released in the area. That being the case then there will be justification for spring trapping within the affected location.

I think the queens will be looking at hibernating well before December, I find them here from around now, docile and looking for hiding places.

I understand. However in the UK with a colder climate the nests are not likely to develop to maturation quite as quickly. Not withstanding if they do, then we are likely to see redundant workers looking for carbs and this will give us an indication as to whether any queens have been produced. If the workers are still hunting then it's likely that queens haven't been produced. The later that queen production happens the more likely that mating events will fail as a consequence of inclement weather. Back in 2011 we had horrendous gales in August just as just nests were starting to mature. As a consequence of the gales vast numbers of nests were depopulated and collapsed before the sexual progeny could fledge and we witnessed a total collapse in wasp populations for 2012 resulting in high levels of insect pests.

All these are observations from here in Portugal, I am probably way out for the UK. Sorry I made a mess of the quotes, they are within the text. I think the queens will be looking at hibernating well before December, I find them here from around now, docile and looking for hiding places.

Time will tell. The most important thing is that the UK doesn't become complacent and that everyone contributes and participates responsibly.

 

[Karol]

I don't actually intend to do anything, going to leave it all to the secret society, not really very concerned about these hornets at all, yet.

If they ever do become established I may import some hornet resistant bees from the USA, Fusion power is bound to have some of them in stock.

And I think that's an entirely sensible approach.

 

[MuswellMetro]

I don't actually intend to do anything, going to leave it all to the secret society, not really very concerned about these hornets at all, yet.

If they ever do become established I may import some hornet resistant bees from the USA, Fusion power is bound to have some of them in stock.

well i suppose you could import Apis cerana queens from Australia, that might work and you can be import bees from Australia unlike the USA and would customs notice the diffence between a cerana and a mellifica queen now that JBM has left their service?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If they ever do become established I may import some hornet resistant bees from the USA, Fusion power is bound to have some of them in stock.

 

[Karol]

Can I just add for absolute clarity that the catch, treat and release method is only viable whilst Asian hornets are in their hunting phase. It's certainly not something that should be attempted during the sweet feeding phase as it's unlikely to work to any great extent. During sweet feeding catch, treat and release should be replaced with trapping on sweet bait.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Can I just add for absolute clarity that the catch, treat and release method is only viable whilst Asian hornets are in their hunting phase. It's certainly not something that should be attempted during the sweet feeding phase as it's unlikely to work to any great extent. During sweet feeding catch, treat and release should be replaced with trapping on sweet bait.

what castes of Hornet are you trapping on the autumn sweet bait, worker , drones or queens?

 

[Karol]

what castes of Hornet are you trapping on the autumn sweet bait, worker , drones or queens?

It'll be predominantly workers. Drones will already have perished post mating - you might catch a few depending on when the traps are deployed in relation to life cycle. Queens will be looking to hibernate and will feed on nectar but not really be interested in the traps - much more interested in staying out of the way and finding secure refuge - they already have fat bodies to take them through winter.

 

[MuswellMetro]

It'll be predominantly workers. Drones will already have perished post mating - you might catch a few depending on when the traps are deployed in relation to life cycle. Queens will be looking to hibernate and will feed on nectar but not really be interested in the traps - much more interested in staying out of the way and finding secure refuge - they already have fat bodies to take them through winter.

i know it may feel nice killing asian hornet workers in autumn if they have been killing your bees to feed their brood but are hornet workers post brood feeding a threat to honeybees? Do they raid hives for honey?. I thought they fed off fermenting fruit and ivy nectar. you see hundreds on Ivy in France ( and not a lot of other insects)

 

[Karol]

My specific interest is wasps not Asian hornets as we don't have them (established that is) in the UK. It is about reducing risk not about it being nice. Trapping Asians in the UK in the fall is as much about monitoring as anything else because it will help inform follow up actions.

 

[Chiangmai member]

Based on my observations, A cerana seem no less vulnerable to V. velutina than A. meliferra. Their usual defence to being stressed by hornets is to move to a new location. In Laos PDR rural beekeepers fully expect their bees to leave the apiary during the hornet season, (June - Oct) but know that in Nov/Dec they will return.

 

[Chiangmai member]

Based on my observations, A cerana seem no less vulnerable to V. velutina than A. meliferra. Their usual defence to being stressed by hornets is to move to a new location. In Laos PDR rural beekeepers fully expect their bees to leave the apiary during the hornet season, (June - Oct) but know that in Nov/Dec they will return.

 

[mazzamazda]

I struggle with the advice given by the NBU regards monitoring traps and the use of protein baits.



Traps simply dont work, maybe catch one or two but VV want insects, easy to get insects, beehives provide all their needs. Look at the front of the hive if you want to know if you have an Asian hornet problem, bees clustering and you might have, even if you dont see a hornet.

 

[mazzamazda]

I understand but that's where the method must be quite refined. So, for example make the sugar paste using vinegar instead of water to make it less attractive to bees in the event that the hornet dies on route. Only release treated hornets as dusk is approaching and they're ready to aggregate for the night (I'm not aware that velutina is nocturnal but I may be wrong in this). Furthermore, during the hunting phase hornets will be fed by their brood so they will be hungry if kept in captivity for any length of time and will beat a path straight back to the nest as their power pack will be running down. They are quite large insects so burn a lot of calories to keep going and this may explain why they die quickly in captivity if they are not given access to liquid carbs.

Trapping will only ever be a palliative method and that's fine if one becomes resigned to living with velutina in regions that sustain the insect. However, if it's eradication that is required then the measures to be taken will have a small degree of associated risk. The point is that treated hornets know their way home so it's a matter of weaponising them so that they do the work for you. If the sugar paste method proves to be too harmful collaterally then there are other options but they carry a higher cost and require scientific development.

It honestly just wont work, well with the product I use "frontline" I've experimented so much with this, I'm guessing 1/4 of a drop is maximum, anymore and it kills them within 5 seconds. If you treat anywhere other than its posterior it dies too.

VV get up very early, many hours before the bees and go to bed late after the bees, as you say not nocturnal. Letting them off late isnt an option either as you need to catch so many. Not to mention all the time im treating them they are wriggling and trying to sting me with their 5mm stinger dripping with venum. Its a full time job and with feeding bees I'm shattered. Keep thinking though, I'll try anything you suggest.

 

[mazzamazda]

Why? The UK is not heavily forested, doesn't have large swathes of wetlands, isn't particularly warm and doesn't have the insect densities seen on the continent.

Because its already made it to the UK and thriving, they have built that nest in Tetbury. Here we only have one stream, everywhere else is burned with the sun. I think they are more versatile than you give them credit for. The other scary thing is the UK has a 100% record of not being able to control any invasive species, so once its here it is here. The NBU need to be pulling their socks up before its too late and relying on locating nests alone wont work for ever.

 

[Plenty of honey]

I struggle with the advice given by the NBU regards monitoring traps and the use of protein baits.



Traps simply dont work, maybe catch one or two but VV want insects, easy to get insects, beehives provide all their needs. Look at the front of the hive if you want to know if you have an Asian hornet problem, bees clustering and you might have, even if you dont see a hornet.

Mazzamazda i think you are it seems theres a core here who dont think their will be Asian Hornets in the UK. Well they should think again.
They will establish in the uk, or if not they will be constant outbreaks.
The question is what will be the best way to deal with them in the UK as their dynamics and behaviour may be different slightly different to that neighbouring Europe. One cannot ignore the Tetbury and more recent outbreak as an example and these are only the ones that have been located. The Tetbury being an" A "typical example.

Theres no question that their might not be enough insects to support their rapid summer growth. They dont just take pollinators, were forgetting that. They take all sorts, caterpillars , spiders from webs, etc, etc. they are highly dynamic.

I still say that early highly selective trapping, with the right attractant and traps, combined with summer catch, treat and release will control the numbers, (once theres a core overwintering population of queens. otherwise it isn't really worth bothering about.)
Comercial beekeepers dont seem to be too worried at this stage, As they have hives in numbers. They can spring trap and catch and release, if numbers become a problem.
Its unlikely that bees on late summer heather will have an issue either, as hornets are more than likely to stick to their home range after getting established in a valley of wooded copse.

The added bonus you have in the uk is the same population of France but divide the surface area by four. This may make it easier to find nests with added foot soldiers as has already been pointed out by Karol.

I am sure in time, the Asian hornet will become "just another thing to deal with",
which indeed you will. I admit when we first started seeing them i was deeply concerned. Now well, we just get on with it!!

Just to add, that no invasive insect species in Europe has ever been successfully control. get used to the facts!!

 

[mazzamazda]

OK but when you treat do you not see a visible decline in hornet workers within a matter of a few days? The important thing is not to stop just because the numbers fall to a comparatively low number but to press on and mop up those last hornets. The following year, there should be far fewer hornets. The caveat to this is that sufficient other beekeepers use the same method so that their districts don't end up as sanctuaries/reservoirs that keep repopulating your area. It has to be a concerted approach.

Yes, within 48 hours, these things are territorial and the vaccum I create brings in hornets from other nests in lower numbers im guessing. Its tough work. I'm emailing associations here to help.

 

[mazzamazda]

OK and presumably you are seeing them around the hives now more interested in honey rather than the bees?

I'm feeding and if I spill a drop of syrup they are heading that way instead of the front of the hive for protein.

The way these hornets work, from what I've seen after losing 3 hives to them this year, they eat the bees from the front of the hive, (Always the end hives) weaken it and then they enter it eating the honey and finishing off the bees, you can tell from the state of the wax its hornets raiding not bees robbing, huge holes in the wax. You also find lots of hornets inside the hive.

 

[Karsal]

It honestly just wont work, well with the product I use "frontline" I've experimented so much with this, I'm guessing 1/4 of a drop is maximum, anymore and it kills them within 5 seconds. If you treat anywhere other than its posterior it dies too.

VV get up very early, many hours before the bees and go to bed late after the bees, as you say not nocturnal. Letting them off late isnt an option either as you need to catch so many. Not to mention all the time im treating them they are wriggling and trying to sting me with their 5mm stinger dripping with venum. Its a full time job and with feeding bees I'm shattered. Keep thinking though, I'll try anything you suggest.

Have you tried mixing ant killer powder with syrup and painting it onto the hornets thorax or abdomen. They would then take this back to the hive and general grooming etc should spread it around the colony. This would not kill the carrier as it needs to be ingested.
Not sure if this would be as effective but worth a try as they say you can use it for killing wasps colonies.

 

[maddydog]

Mazzamazda i think you are it seems theres a core here who dont think their will be Asian Hornets in the UK. Well they should think again.
They will establish in the uk, or if not they will be constant outbreaks.

Just to add, that no invasive insect species in Europe has ever been successfully control. get used to the facts!!

Also a core that believes it is only a matter of time if they're not already here and established. In addition to believing that the authorities are as much use as a chocolate tea cozy whether it's egos, incompetence or Tory cost cutting.
I for one am happy to hear about efforts to control this pest from those with front line experience.

 

[mazzamazda]

Based on my observations, A cerana seem no less vulnerable to V. velutina than A. meliferra. Their usual defence to being stressed by hornets is to move to a new location. In Laos PDR rural beekeepers fully expect their bees to leave the apiary during the hornet season, (June - Oct) but know that in Nov/Dec they will return.

Very interesting!