AS without finding HM ?

[Dadnlad]

On inspection this afternoon we found 4 or 5 of last weeks queen cups had white substance inside (I guessed royal jelly) and were being elongated into queen cells. The girls must have decided it's time to go, so have we're going to do an AS tomorrow
HM is definitely there, with plenty of eggs, larvae and capped brood in both bb and super (colony is brood+half) but we've never seen let alone marked her !

If we shake/brush all bees (hopefully including HM) off all frames into an empty bb on same site, QX on top then replace brood+half with BIAS and QC's above, theory being nurse bees move through QX to the brood - leaving HM and flyers below ?
Next day move off brood+half onto new floor/cb/roof

As a 2nd year beekeeper I've read up but never done an AS. Is there anything else I should be doing ?

 

[BeeJayBee]

Not answering your question, sorry, but maybe you could do what we did last year?

If you want to increase to two colonies you could just do a split - put half of the frames containing eggs into a new box and leave half where they are. One box will contain the queen, the other should make a new queen.

 

[richardbees]

It's a bit late at night....but I don't see why not, put some frames/foundation in that lower box. At least by a day later you'll have thinned out the population so have a better chance of finding her!

An alternative is to move the whole lot 10ft away and put a floor, bb with foundation and super back on the old site. Before long you'll have removed all the flying bees and the Q will be much easier to find.

good luck!

 

[Erichalfbee]

On inspection this afternoon we found 4 or 5 of last weeks queen cups had white substance inside (I guessed royal jelly) and were being elongated into queen cells. The girls must have decided it's time to go, so have we're going to do an AS tomorrow
HM is definitely there, with plenty of eggs, larvae and capped brood in both bb and super (colony is brood+half) but we've never seen let alone marked her !

If we shake/brush all bees (hopefully including HM) off all frames into an empty bb on same site, QX on top then replace brood+half with BIAS and QC's above, theory being nurse bees move through QX to the brood - leaving HM and flyers below ?
Next day move off brood+half onto new floor/cb/roof

That's just what I was planning in the one hive with an unmarked queen but it's messy and the bees hate it!!!!
Luckily after supering without an excluder I found her in that super at the next inspection.
You might try moving the brood boxes, leaving an empty one on the old site where your AS and now marked queen will go, and pairing up the other frames if you have the spare boxes. Blimey....will be time consuming with brood and a half but needs must.
Best of luck

 

[Skyhook]

Sounds good to me. I would reduce the qc's down to 1 good open one (so you can see the grub- sealed ones may be dud) and whatever you do, don't shake that frame- there's a danger of shaking the grub loose in the qc.

Are you using this opportunity to move to 2 hives? it gives you more security over one. If so, and if your queen is getting old, you might also want to put perhaps 3 frames with another qc into a nuc box, to raise a replacement queen. This could then be recombined back into the AS, and the old queen removed, when the new queens are up and running.

.

 

[Finman]

On i

If we shake/brush all bees (hopefully including HM) off all frames into an empty bb on same site,

QX on top then replace brood+half with BIAS and QC's above, theory being nurse bees move through QX to the brood - leaving HM and flyers below ?
Next day move off brood+half onto new floor/cb/roof

As a 2nd year beekeeper I've read up but never done an AS. Is there anything else I should be doing ?

that is something really wrong advice. From where heck that comes from.

- You move the hive 10 feet
- you put a new hive box on old hive site which has foundations
- you put a food frame and brood frame into foundation box.
- If you do not find a queen, you put a frame which has qeen cells.
- when half of bees have moved by themselves to new box, perhaps it is easier to find a laying queen.

Flying AS is good because nurser bees do not leave brood. If you brush too much young bees, broo will be violated or partly starved..

.

 

[oliver90owner]

both bb and super

Is it brood and a half or a brood and a super? Supers are for honey collection. Brood and and a half is a deep and shallow box for brooding.

 

[Mellifera397]

Why don't you put five frames in the top brood box with two of the queen cells and the same in the bottom brood box separate the boxes making two hives in the space put new frames. 3 days later (I don't know how old your qc's are) you can tell where the queen (eggs will be present) is and destroy the queen cells in her hive. You can then bleed off bees by moving the hive with the queen cells left from. One side of HM's colony to boost their flying population.

I just came up with that, not very original but it probably won't work knowing my luck but if you give it a go then I'd love o hear the results.

M

P.S I should imagine this technique would severely dent your honey crop.

 

[beeno]

Hi Dadnlad,
I hasten to add that this arrangement is for when you cannot find the queen. Go with your conviction. If you do it as you stated (and it works) feed queen part a little to get them started or put super of food on this part. I will have to do this arrangement on one of my hives if and when the time comes. Someone actually lectured on this. From the people who do this the old queen still manages to swarm sometimes, keep her in by way of queen excluder for three four days until you think they have settled and they have stopped making new QC.
Forum, if you are making a split without finding the queen surely all the QC will have to be torn down until you have identified which box she is in? The risk of waiting three days IMHO is too great. Can we have some pros onto this. Sorry Finman, but we are talking hobby beekeeping on this one.

 

[psafloyd]

Not answering your question, sorry, but maybe you could do what we did last year?

If you want to increase to two colonies you could just do a split - put half of the frames containing eggs into a new box and leave half where they are. One box will contain the queen, the other should make a new queen.

If they are that close to swarming, they will probably still swarm.

 

[Hawklord]

Set up a 2nd brood box with foundation next to your hive. Now move the original hive 10 feet away. Go through the super and knock any queen cells down and put it on the 2nd brood box. Wait an hour or so and start to look for that queen in the old box. Put the frames into pairs with a gap between each pair. The queen will be between 1 of the pairs of frames, probably laying so look for eggs - not stores or capped brood.

 

[scuttlefish]

On inspection this afternoon we found 4 or 5 of last weeks queen cups had white substance inside (I guessed royal jelly) and were being elongated into queen cells. The girls must have decided it's time to go, so have we're going to do an AS tomorrow
HM is definitely there, with plenty of eggs, larvae and capped brood in both bb and super (colony is brood+half) but we've never seen let alone marked her !

If we shake/brush all bees (hopefully including HM) off all frames into an empty bb on same site, QX on top then replace brood+half with BIAS and QC's above, theory being nurse bees move through QX to the brood - leaving HM and flyers below ?
Next day move off brood+half onto new floor/cb/roof

As a 2nd year beekeeper I've read up but never done an AS. Is there anything else I should be doing ?

I'm guessing you've done your AS by now, how did it go? I've used that method a couple of times, both successfully (although that flying AS suggested by Finman sounds like it's worth a try, too...).

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'm guessing you've done your AS by now, how did it go? I've used that method a couple of times, both successfully (although that flying AS suggested by Finman sounds like it's worth a try, too...).

Yes how did it go and yes Finman's flying AS does sound better than shaking all the bees.

 

[beeno]

Hi Finman,
What proportion of bees would you hope to bleed off from original hive by this method. Me thinking if you have a lot of brood you will still have a lot of nurse bees left in the original colony where you have to find HM.