Demaree Questions

[Cole lynch]

When carrying out swarm prevention using the Demaree method of;
leaving the Queen in the lower BB and moving the brood into the upper BB position separated by 2 Supers,
(with the intention of reuniting the split later in the year)

What is the reason for the 2nd Queen excluder under the upper BB.
As far as I can see it just traps any drones that emerge in the top box?

Also am I right in thinking after all QCs have been removed from upper BB, that despite the population of the lower BB being swollen by the nurse bees migrating down to the new brood, the urge to swarm is likely to still delayed whilst there is room for the Queen to lay in the newly drawn comb in the lower BB ?
New bee in Kent

 

[Bazzer]

When carrying out swarm prevention using the Demaree method of;
leaving the Queen in the lower BB and moving the brood into the upper BB position separated by 2 Supers,
(with the intention of reuniting the split later in the year)

What is the reason for the 2nd Queen excluder under the upper BB.
As far as I can see it just traps any drones that emerge in the top box?

Also am I right in thinking after all QCs have been removed from upper BB, that despite the population of the lower BB being swollen by the nurse bees migrating down to the new brood, the urge to swarm is likely to still delayed whilst there is room for the Queen to lay in the newly drawn comb in the lower BB ?
New bee in Kent

The upper QE is really only necessary if the Demaree is going to be used to raise a new queen in the upper box. The swarming instinct is thought to be controlled by the ratio of uncapped brood to nurse bees so you are correct this is favoured by providing a lot of new space for the queen to lay in.

 

[Erichalfbee]

What is the reason for the 2nd Queen excluder under the upper BB.
As far as I can see it just traps any drones that emerge in the top box?

If you’re leaving the top box on they couldn’t get out through the bottom excluder either
So you have to have a top entrance.

 

[JamezF]

I thought I had a paper somewhere discussing a Demaree, but I can't find it right now. There seem to be plenty of explanations of the process that use a second QE (without detailing why it should be there) and just as many that don't use a second QE at all, so I'd guess it's not strictly necessary and that as Bazzer says, it's possibly only required if a new queen is raised in the top box, intentionally or otherwise.

James

 

[Etton]

Do most using the demaree method provide an upper entrance to the top BB? Does it make any difference which way it points?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Do most using the demaree method provide an upper entrance to the top BB? Does it make any difference which way it points?

I do because I keep it rolling and I want somewhere for the drones to exit. It faces the same way as the bottom entrance.

I thought I had a paper somewhere discussing a Demaree, but I can't find it right now. There seem to be plenty of explanations of the process that use a second QE (without detailing why it should be there) and just as many that don't use a second QE at all, so I'd guess it's not strictly necessary and that as Bazzer says, it's possibly only required if a new queen is raised in the top box, intentionally or otherwise.

James

Not a paper but we have a sticky here
STICKIES

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Do most using the demaree method provide an upper entrance to the top BB? Does it make any difference which way it points?

no - always done it with the top entrance facing the same way as the bottom one

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There seem to be plenty of explanations of the process that use a second QE (without detailing why it should be there)

One reason was to stop the drones getting into the supers - not really an issue unless you are using porter escapes not long after, as the drones jam them up making an inefficient clearing system even less effective.
Another reason is if you allow a queen to be raised in the top box (whether intentionally or not) it stops her going down and laying in the middle of the honey.